The new mod order in 1.2.5

[Octopuss]

The following changes should prevent these kinds of errors:

• Move Unofficial Skyrim Patch before Dragonborn
• Move Dawnguard before Dragonborn
• Move Unofficial Dawnguard Patch before Dragonborn
• Move HearthFires before Dragonborn
• Move Unofficial Hearthfire Patch before Dragonborn

 

Shall I? Currently my mod order mostly follows the STEP guide (for the fixes section at the least), and this directly conflicts with it.

I don't really understand the new changes, and the long thread where all of that was discussed was beyond what I could understand.

[Octopuss]

That's why I say I don't understand the changelog one damn bit. Could someone explain to an idiot who apparently cannot read what the deal is?

I thought the bug was related to position 0 and nothing else.

[blattgeist]

That's why I say I don't understand the changelog one damn bit. Could someone explain to an idiot who apparently cannot read what the deal is?

I thought the bug was related to position 0 and nothing else.

We know as much as you do.. all Tannin said is in the changelog. He could mean the priority 0 bug or something else.

[Tannin]

I don't understand the changelog at all.

Make sure to load DLCs at the very top ELSE WHAT?

 

So this is bad?

Depends. loose files from mods above the dlcs will still be loaded AFTER the dlc so the load order for those files is different than expected (and different than displayed in the MO UI), hence my suggstion to move up the DLCs as far as possible.

 

I could have also said: Place the DLCs wherever and ensure that all mods above them are either bsas or don't conflict with the DLCs.

[blattgeist]

Well "Distant Decal Fix" isn't conflicting with any of the DLCs, so it's still fine to load it before the USP. Thanks for the clarification Tannin.

[Octopuss]

Depends. loose files from mods above the dlcs will still be loaded AFTER the dlc so the load order for those files is different than expected (and different than displayed in the MO UI), hence my suggstion to move up the DLCs as far as possible.I could have also said: Place the DLCs wherever and ensure that all mods above them are either bsas or don't conflict with the DLCs.

Well, those optimized textures are supposed to be placed like that, according to STEP.

Also, I don't think this should present a problem, because loose DG textures don't conflict with either HF or DG.. unless I missed something about the new way MO works.

It's pretty confusing - maybe we are overcomplicating things?

[hypercleats]

Thanks for the clarification, Tannin. So, as far as I can tell, having SKSE scripts, Cell Stabilizer, and Distant Decal Fix before the DLCs will cause no issues since none of these have files that are meant to be changed by any DLC anyway. Distant Decal Fix has many files overwritten by USKP so it needs to be above that. And the bug is that the DLCs cannot overwrite any loose files, regardless of position in the left pane. Therefore, a mod like Argonian Decapitation Fix, which has one file in conflict with Dawnguard.bsa, will not be overwritten by Dawnguard even if placed above it. (I hope I'm getting all this correct.) Is the 000c3ca9.nif file in Argonian Decapitation Fix meant to be overwritten by Dawngaurd?

 

BTW: has the Priority 0 = 999999 bug been fixed in 1.2.6?

[DoubleYou]

I have my optimized textures in BSAs, so no problem here

 

I still need to test to make sure 1.2.6 fixed the bug I was having. The thing was, initially, it was a BSA mod in priority 0 that was overwriting all for me, which was how I noticed it, so I'm not entirely sure what to make of it all.

[TheBloke]

BTW: has the Priority 0 = 999999 bug been fixed in 1.2.6?

Tannin said on the bug tracker that he believes this bug never existed. Instead, the symptoms described by people as "Priority 0" bug actually turned out to be a combination of two issues:

[*]MO 1.2.5 doesn't allow bsas to overwrite loose files at all.

[*]even after fixing this, bsas from dlcs can't overwrite loose files.

The first of those was fixed in 1.2.6.  The second has not yet been fixed, which is why we have the Changelog instructions to not put any conflicting items before the DLCs.

 

So it appears that thinking that Priority 0 "overwrote everything" as inaccurate; what was happening was people often were putting a loose file mod in priority 0 and then the DLCs and Unofficial Patches, which used BSAs, could not overwrite them.

 

However it's not yet been 100% confirmed that there isn't a third issue, specific to Priority 0 - just at the moment, Tannin doesn't believe so.

 

EDIT:

 

I still need to test to make sure 1.2.6 fixed the bug I was having. The thing was, initially, it was a BSA mod in priority 0 that was overwriting all for me, which was how I noticed it, so I'm not entirely sure what to make of it all.

Yeah and I remember on Nexus, someone was having an issue with USKP overwriting CCOR, even though CCOR was later. And CCOR doesn't use a BSA.

 

So I am still worried there might be another issue. I asked Tannin about the potential Priority=0 issue still existing, on the issue tracker, but he could find no sign of it. I'm doing some checking now I finally have 1.2.6.

Edited June 26, 2014 by TheBloke

[blattgeist]

 

Is the 000c3ca9.nif file in Argonian Decapitation Fix meant to be overwritten by Dawngaurd?

Hm.. if it's a loose file it will be loaded after dawnguard.bsa, even though dawnguard.bsa comes after the mod, if I understood it correctly.

 

So that file won't be overridden by dawnguard.

Edited June 26, 2014 by blattgeist

[TheBloke]

Hm.. if it's a loose file it will be loaded after dawnguard.bsa, even though dawnguard.bsa comes after the mod, if I understood it correctly. So that file won't be overridden by dawnguard.

That's how it will be in MO 1.2.6, yeah.But the way I understood hypercleat's question was "Is it right that, in general, this file in Argonian Decapitation is going to be overriden by Dawnguard?I noticed that earlier today as well - and I think the answer is no, it's not right. This is a new issue that was introduced because of MO 1.2.5's new handling of Non-MO mods. Before, we put Argonian Decapitation before the Unofficial Patches, but MO would still load it after the vanilla DLCs. Now if we put it at the top of the load order, MO is loading it before the DLCs. And every other mod manager would load it after the DLCs as well, because it's loose files.So I think that once 1.2.7 comes out, Argonian Decapitation Fixes needs to be given a new mod position order in STEP - after the Non-MO and Unofficial mods. That should then load all its files in the order the mod author intended.

[Octopuss]

 

[*]even after fixing this, bsas from dlcs can't overwrite loose files.

Wait, why should they? That makes no sense. The whole concept of optimized textures (I am not sure if the whole process is that important after all, but that's not the point) would be useless then.

[TheBloke]

Wait, why should they? That makes no sense. The whole concept of optimized textures (I am not sure if the whole process is that important after all, but that's not the point) would be useless then.

In MO, conflicts are resolved according to the order of mods in the left-pane (modlist). Or, they are meant to. In 1.2.6 there is a bug relating to the newly-handled "Non-MO" mods and their BSA files.

 

Therefore, in 1.2.6, if you have, say, Dawnguard in mod list priority 5, and before Dawnguard (e.g. priority 3) you have the Unofficial Skyrim Patch, and you have extracted the BSA in USKP, then Dawnguard will be unable to overwrite any USKP-provided files - even though it should overwrite it, because Dawnguard is higher priority than USKP (5 vs 3).

 

Ditto if you put any other mod with loose files (whether from extracting a BSA, or just because they are provided loose; e.g. scripts) before Dawnguard, Dragonborn, HearthFire or any other Non-MO mod that provides BSAs.

 

In other words, with regard to the "Non-MO" mods, mod list priority is not currently working completely as displayed and as expected. This will be fixed in 1.2.7

[DoubleYou]

In 2.2.9 Unofficial Patches will be either at the top of Fixes or in a potential new section above Fixes.

[Octopuss]

In MO, conflicts are resolved according to the order of mods in the left-pane (modlist). Or, they are meant to. In 1.2.6 there is a bug relating to the newly-handled "Non-MO" mods and their BSA files.Therefore, in 1.2.6, if you have, say, Dawnguard in mod list priority 5, and before Dawnguard (e.g. priority 3) you have the Unofficial Skyrim Patch, and you have extracted the BSA in USKP, then Dawnguard will be unable to overwrite any USKP-provided files - even though it should overwrite it, because Dawnguard is higher priority than USKP (5 vs 3).Ditto if you put any other mod with loose files (whether from extracting a BSA, or just because they are provided loose; e.g. scripts) before Dawnguard, Dragonborn, HearthFire or any other Non-MO mod that provides BSAs.In other words, with regard to the "Non-MO" mods, mod list priority is not currently working completely as displayed and as expected. This will be fixed in 1.2.7

Damn, that's a bit too complicated for me to understand :D I never really understood the BSA vs loose files and MO thing at all.

I just hope 1.2.7 will be released in a few days.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Octopuss

[TheBloke]

Damn, that's a bit too complicated for me to understand :D I never really understood the BSA vs loose files and MO thing at all.

I just hope 1.2.7 will be released in a few days.

Once 1.2.7 is released, everything will be simple again:

• As long as you have ticked "MO manages archives" in the Archive tab (which is on by default, so you should have), then:
• The list of mods in your mod list (left pane) decides what order any mod assets are loaded in. Doesn't matter whether they are supplied as loose files, or BSAs. Every single asset required by the game - any script, any texture, any Interface/ file, whatever - is loaded according to the priority of the mod list, and you can see that order using the mod list Conflicts tab, and by looking at the Data pane.
• This is one of the (many) beauties of MO - loose, BSA, any combination of loose + BSA.. doesn't matter; mod list priority decides all.

But yeah 1.2.6 is a bit different - for now, just follow the advice Tannin gave in the changelog, and put USKP at Priority 0 and then Dawnguard and then UDGP and so on, and all will be fine. (Actually that's not strictly required, as Tannin explained earlier.. but it's the simplest advice to give/follow)

Edited June 26, 2014 by TheBloke