Mod Priority (Install) Order, What are the facts.

[Uhuru]

My understanding has always been that Install Order is about what files win a conflict.

which is completely separate to Load Order.

 

MO is arranging the Script conflicts to match Load Order.

 

I can find no info about this and a debate rages on MO forum.

 

This is not about that debate directly.

This is about gathering the established facts about the general subject.

This post can be edited by any mod/staff to match established facts about the general subject.

Nowhere is this written about it should be.

[DoubleYou]

Main reason for plugin priority order to match mod priority order:

Mod A plugin describes one of its scripts.

Mod B plugin describes the same script.

We want Mod A to be used, so we place it in a higher priority plugin order to that of Mod B. However, we have Mod B providing the script. This can cause serious problems. Therefore, we have a warning set up to inform user of the possibility of this situation.

 

The most common example where this has been a problem has been between the Unofficial Skyrim Patch and the Unofficial Dragonborn Patch. If the user had Unofficial Dragonborn Patch before Unofficial Skyrim Patch in the mod priority order, contrary to its plugin priority order as instructed, dragon souls couldn't be absorbed.

[Uhuru]

Yes, I see the Logic for Scripts matching Plugins, I wasn't trying to imply MO is doing something wrong. Just Trying to gather all releavant facts together, as nowhere (All sites) is this sort of thing discussed much at all, nowhere can I actually find anything much regarding Install Order apart from the obvious fact that updates to a mod come after the main mod, I'd expect that should also match Load Order, not exactly an update if main comes after for both orders.

Are there any exceptions to those general rules and is there anything else that should match Load Order. Generally Meshes and Textures are arranged as user prefers.

Whats the priority of these different choices for intstall Order

 

Updates

Scripts

?

Meshes

Textures

?

 

Load Order Gets all the attention as mistakes there tend to stop game running, Mistakes in install order are more subtle and often not connected to the effect, if anything that makes a general good practice guide, even more helpful to reduce these hard to pin down errors.

Basically from all I've read if the game loads the Load Order is correct, yet I often read someone posting that, they stopped this or that happening in game, though it may be true, it appears to be a crude method that actually caused another change (BSA's maybe or even the script switch in reverse).

With a proper set of general guidelines maybe a lot of the crude fixes would not be needed. So some progress towards the facts but still not clear yet. Your input is appreciated. Sources would be better though.

[Searcher7]

I've never understood why people unpack bsa's; that changes the possibility of "relative" load and install orders (based upon the position of an esp in the load stream), to a "fixed" load and install sequence (which bsa was unpacked last wins). I've had innumerable issues with adding mid-priority mods which contain bsa's to an unpacked bsa setup. The only way I solved issues was a Chicken and Egg hack; I installed all the mods I wanted, sorted them, uninstalled everything, and re-installed them in the sorted load order sequence. Way too much work. Leaving bsa's packed allows the Skyrim load priority mechanism to work as intended. I quit unpacking a LONG time ago (after a simple bsa repack solved the Esbern glitch) and now I actually pack all loose file mod assets INTO bsa's before installing them.

 

My games HAVE to work (I am OCD regarding game bugs) and, as they were originally intended to, bsa's make priority management very simple. TES5EDIT cleans up any remaining issues far more quickly than unpacking a bunch of bsa's and managing thousands of loose files individually. And I can add/move mods around at will. Besides all that, bsa's seem to perform "smoother" than loose files on my machine.

 

What am I missing insofar as bsa unpacking is concerned? Bsa's make the installation order issue almost moot. I am unaware of any major conflict caused by using bsa's and I certainly don't experience issues that I can attribute to a "packed" game setup.

 

EDIT: spelling

Edited May 15, 2014 by Searcher7

[Glanzer]

@Citizen:  What you say is true for NMM users but not for Mod Organizer users since mod files NEVER physically overwrite each other in MO.  The load order is based totally on the position of the mod in MO.  You can drag mods up and down in the load order to make their files load before/after other mods.

 

HOWEVER if you don't unpack the BSAs then the loose files will ALWAYS take precedence over archived files (i.e. files in BSAs), and that will negate any load order that you have in MO for conflicting files.  That's why MO users should ALWAYS unpack BSAs during installation.  (There are a few that stay packed though, e.g. the DLCs).

[Uhuru]

@Citizen:  What you say is true for NMM users but not for Mod Organizer users since mod files NEVER physically overwrite each other in MO.  The load order is based totally on the position of the mod in MO.  You can drag mods up and down in the load order to make their files load before/after other mods.

 

However if you don't unpack the BSA's then the loose files will Always take precedence over archived files (i.e. files in BSA's), and that will negate any load order that you have in MO for conflicting files.  That's why MO users should Always unpack BSA's during installation.  (There are a few that stay packed though, e.g. the DLC's).

You are actuall wrong there MO has the ability to leave BSA's Packed and still treat it exactly like Loose files, this gives the best of both worlds.

• BSA's Size which is approximately half the size of Loose (Always good to take up Less Space especially with SSD's.
• User Control of Conflict resolution the Main advantage of Loose Files, Giving a Win-Win Best of Both Options

This was optional and chosen by ticking of a checkbox on BSA's it was especially recommended when an ESP had the sole purpose of extracting the BSA, this had replaced the original recommendation to extract as you describe.

 

The observant will have noticed I use the past tense implying that this is no longer the case, this impication is correct, though the feature is still in use, things have changed.

MO v1.2.1 has made the change automatic and default, the advatageis so obvious and useful, disadvantages are none.

[Searcher7]

Thanks for the info. The only loose files I have (~8) are intended to override everything else. All others were bsa-ified prior to install.

[Glanzer]

@Uhuru: I guess that must be a new feature of MO? I'm using version 1.1.2 and that was put in 1.2.0 according to the Read Me.