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Dante2904

Neovalen's SR - New Animation For Magic Casting

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I am currently skimming through your guide specifically for cleaning, but am actually finding some really nice mods not in S.T.E.P..

 

I had to use your guide like crazy to clean all these mods out, thanks for the guide btw! :D

 

This mod in particular New Animation For Magic Casting seems to require FNIS (I dont care to use FNIS), but FNIS requirement wasn't stated in your summary - do I, in-fact, have to run FNIS to use this?

 

FNIS reasoning:

 

 

I do not use FNIS because I still don't understand exactly what it does after reading and re-reading the description, I try to make sure if I install something, I know what it does and how it works.

 

 

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You need to run FNIS anyway, otherwise the animations will not work with the new skeleton. Even if you use the non-FNIS patch for the skeleton, Dragonborn added animations will still not work - FNIS fixes the issues with Dragonborn.

 

Even if you don't completely understand FNIS, you should run it anyway, following Neovalen's instructions.

 

As for the mod, yes, you do have to run FNIS with the GENDER patch ticked for that particular version of the mod to work.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

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I do not use FNIS because I still don't understand exactly what it does after reading and re-reading the description, I try to make sure if I install something, I know what it does and how it works.

 

Skyrim Animation Background:

In Skyrim animations only work when they are integrated with the Havok Behavior Tool (HBT) This tool creates so-called Behavior files, like the ones in data/meshes/actors/character/behaviors. Behavior files define all necessary logic around animationsLike the events necessary to start or interrupt an animation, blending between 2 animations, conditions, timing, .... Unfortunately, we have neither the right version of HBT available, nor Bethesda's animation project files which would allow us to modify behaviors. We can only "hack" into the existing behavior files. That'S what FNIS is doing.

 

But behavior files are really HUGE. Behaviors for 3rd person characters, transformed into xlm format, are about 1.2 million lines. Undocumented, and without any debugging or testing support.

 

FNIS 4.0 planned enhancements:

furniture animations: used for all animations which need to be executed at a certain position and angle. Like chairs and beds, but also mining smithing, searchchest, and even tzhe Dragonborn Telvanni tower lift.

arm offset animations: changing the arm position while walking, running, turning, showrace, talking, standing. Used for basket holding, as well as for bonds.

animationdriven animations: allows characters to move as defined by animations (and not by NPC packages or PC movement keys

 

1) and 2) don't work in seperate behavior files, and need to be integrated into mt_behavior.hkx. But since Bethesda will not release any more DLC, I have changed my strategy, and modify standard behavior files as well.

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I don't understand what you mean, especially with DB added animations - there are broken animations in DB? Or are you referring specifically to this mod?

 

I run XPMS & Realistic Ragdolls atm and I have DG, DB, and HF. I haven't witnessed any animation inconsistencies running the aforementioned with S.T.E.P. 2.2.5.

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I don't understand what you mean, especially with DB added animations - there are broken animations in DB? Or are you referring specifically to this mod?

 

I run XPMS & Realistic Ragdolls atm and I have DG, DB, and HF. I haven't witnessed any animation inconsistencies running the aforementioned with S.T.E.P. 2.2.5.

FNIS is musthave. Use it, love it.

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I do not use FNIS because I still don't understand exactly what it does after reading and re-reading the description' date=' I try to make sure if I install something' date=' I know what it does and how it works.[/quote'']
Skyrim Animation Background:

In Skyrim animations only work when they are integrated with the Havok Behavior Tool (HBT) This tool creates so-called Behavior files' date=' like the ones in data/meshes/actors/character/behaviors. Behavior files define all necessary logic around animationsLike the events necessary to start or interrupt an animation, blending between 2 animations, conditions, timing, .... Unfortunately, we have neither the right version of HBT available, nor Bethesda's animation project files which would allow us to modify behaviors. We can only "hack" into the existing behavior files. That'S what FNIS is doing.

 

But behavior files are really HUGE. Behaviors for 3rd person characters, transformed into xlm format, are about 1.2 million lines. Undocumented, and without any debugging or testing support.

 

FNIS 4.0 planned enhancements:

furniture animations: used for all animations which need to be executed at a certain position and angle. Like chairs and beds, but also mining smithing, searchchest, and even tzhe Dragonborn Telvanni tower lift.

arm offset animations: changing the arm position while walking, running, turning, showrace, talking, standing. Used for basket holding, as well as for bonds.

animationdriven animations: allows characters to move as defined by animations (and not by NPC packages or PC movement keys

 

1) and 2) don't work in seperate behavior files, and need to be integrated into mt_behavior.hkx. But since Bethesda will not release any more DLC, I have changed my strategy, and modify standard behavior files as well.[/quote']

I appreciate the attempt to decrypt the description for me, but this is pretty far beyond me. 

 

I mean, honestly, I wish more than anything I could fire up 3ds Max, import some nifscope exported objs, build a custom rig or a CAT rig, skin the object file, and animate the hell outta it (my focus is layered animation), then tweak skin muscle morphs in Zbrush with a 3ds max morph modifier and put it back in data folders somehow... but... you know... IT IS NEVER THAT SIMPLE :( outside of the film industry.

 

Raging animation rant:

 

 

I can understand anything in "max" terms but upon mentioning anything in gamebryo or whatever skyrim uses, im clueless :(... and havok... at least when passing off work files to UDK users I never had to even hear about anything like hbt or related files lol. I think the biggest difference seems to be that my rigs go with my animations and can be blended with a UI in UDK, but I am guessing here as I am not the one that does that aspect.

 

I have rebuilt all vanilla hair meshes from the ground up, reUVd them, textured them (converted dds files), and even animated them because I was bored... the only thing I can get back in game is the textures.. but i changed the UVs, so it was a waste.

 

 

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Fore's mod is basically a frontend for the world of .hkx modification. It does the required animation changes and additions, so you don't have to. The mod started off as a way to include new idle animations (very useful if you want to do a machinima of the game, can also be used to make you or random NPCs dance or goof off), but has evolved with functonallity to fix animations with custom skeletons installed, allow for gender-specific animations, and even allow you to use your own set of animations, while having NPCs keep their vanilla animations.

 

As for the broken Dragonborn animations, well, if you don't use FNIS, thjese three new animations are broken with XPMS: The mining animation (used by the enslaved people in Solstheim), the animation for using the elevator in the Tel Mithryn Tower, and the heart-ripping killmove animation. I don't think you'll notice those without doing the Dragonborn questline, but when you do, they are there, and noticeable. The non-FNIS patch will not fix those, but running FNIS will.

 

There's really no reason to run FNIS - all you have to do is to run the tool (specifically, GenerateFNISforUsers.exe in \tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users), select the GENDER and SKELETON patches, hit the "Update FNIS Behavior" button, and exist. It really is that simple, and all animations, even the three that I mentioned that break, should work even with the skeleton.

 

You don't have to understand deeply about FNIS for it to work. You are falling into the Centipede's Dilemma - if you just run the tool with Neovalen's instructions, it will first time, every time.

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Fore's mod is basically a frontend for the world of .hkx modification. It does the required animation changes and additions, so you don't have to. The mod started off as a way to include new idle animations (very useful if you want to do a machinima of the game, can also be used to make you or random NPCs dance or goof off), but has evolved with functonallity to fix animations with custom skeletons installed, allow for gender-specific animations, and even allow you to use your own set of animations, while having NPCs keep their vanilla animations.

 

As for the broken Dragonborn animations, well, if you don't use FNIS, thjese three new animations are broken with XPMS: The mining animation (used by the enslaved people in Solstheim), the animation for using the elevator in the Tel Mithryn Tower, and the heart-ripping killmove animation. I don't think you'll notice those without doing the Dragonborn questline, but when you do, they are there, and noticeable. There's really no reason to run FNIS - all you have to do is to run the tool (specifically, GenerateFNISforUsers.exe), select the GENDER and SKELETON patches, hit the "Update FNIS Behavior" button, and exist. It really is that simple, and all animations, even the three that I mentioned, should work.

 

I will attempt to follow Neo's guide to install FNIS along with this thread's titled mod and the Immersive Animations mod. I tried Immersive animations previously because I love his work, but it would not work for me - I assume due to the lack of FNIS, but idk. Hopefully following Neo's steps it may work. I am just terrified that having FNIS with all my body mods might have issues because I have chosen all non-FNIS files on them.

 

I have 495 packages, otherwise it wouldn't be a big deal, and it is really tough to sift through and find out what needs FNIS updates.

 

Hmm... I am pretty sure I actually run a lot of your mods if not all of them, if you have same/similar name on Nexus.

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Well, if the body mods that you are using offer FNIS-compatible versions, use them. That's what I can say. I don't pretend to understand the fine details of Havok animating - if you want to know, ask someone like Fore, Berzegore, or xp32.

 

Also, yes, I am the same WilliamImm on the Nexus. In fact, I use either William Imm or WilliamImm as my alias on just about all sites I visit. (except for Steam, on there I use ultfreecomputing) And yes, all three of my mods are in the STEP project. I also do BAIN (and ocassionally NMM) installers for popular or STEP-used mods, like Closer Quivers and Longer Arrows and Dawnguard Rewitten - Arvak (though the latter installer has been massivly changed from my origional), and even the super-popular Skyrim Redone. (check the permissions for that mod - you'll see my name listed there)

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This not good :(

 

I am using this as it was listed in STEP:

 

Max Skeleton

"Use the "back hip Dagger" version. Also install "Magic-shield arm patch - Non FNIS user" unless planning to run Fore's New Idles." - Now I am planning to run FNIS, so I can just disable this, but do I need to put something in place of the magic-shield arm patch or does FNIS just auto-fix that?

 

Magic-shield arm patch - Non FNIS user

Incompatible with Dragonborn. If you are using Dragonborn DLC, Use the patch from NMM version or latest FNIS <--- I use DB lol...

 

Sorry to keep this going, but this is all confusing. I use Dimonized UNP - Skinny if that makes any difference what-so-ever, with a couple of armor mods that I have no clue if I need a FNIS version for - im still sifting through them all atm.

 

I believe the armor FNIS stuff is for UNPB variants, im not sure. I wouldn't mind some additional immersion with cloth or certain armors having female physics, but meh... ebony, steel, dragon, and daedric with physics is just not very realistic and im def not a fan of UNPB, nor do I care much for UNP, but at least the proportions are a little better than vanilla. None of the animations for female physics I looked at were realistic either, so I assume I can just run FNIS and install the magic casting mod with immersive animations and im good-to-go?

 

Proportion perspective, oh my!:

 

 

Posted Image

 

Never will I be able to get any of my work into skyrim lol, but I have done a lot. Obviously, these havent been re-topologized yet, but I don't think I could ever get them in skyrim anyway.

 

 

 

Or am i totally missing something here and the armor is skinned to the skeleton regardless and FNIS-compatible armor mods wouldnt exist anyway, just the body mod + physics variations?

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This not good :(

 

I am using this as it was listed in STEP:

 

Max Skeleton

"Use the "back hip Dagger" version. Also install "Magic-shield arm patch - Non FNIS user" unless planning to run Fore's New Idles." - Now I am planning to run FNIS, so I can just disable this, but do I need to put something in place of the magic-shield arm patch or does FNIS just auto-fix that?

 

Magic-shield arm patch - Non FNIS user

Incompatible with Dragonborn. If you are using Dragonborn DLC, Use the patch from NMM version or latest FNIS <--- I use DB lol...

 

Sorry to keep this going, but this is all confusing. I use Dimonized UNP - Skinny if that makes any difference what-so-ever, with a couple of armor mods that I have no clue if I need a FNIS version for - im still sifting through them all atm.

 

I believe the armor FNIS stuff is for UNPB variants, im not sure. I wouldn't mind some additional immersion with cloth or certain armors having female physics, but meh... ebony, steel, dragon, and daedric with physics is just not very realistic and im def not a fan of UNPB, nor do I care much for UNP, but at least the proportions are a little better than vanilla. None of the animations for female physics I looked at were realistic either, so I assume I can just run FNIS and install the magic casting mod with immersive animations and im good-to-go?

 

Proportion perspective, oh my!:

 

 

Posted Image

 

Never will I be able to get any of my work into skyrim lol, but I have done a lot. Obviously, these havent been re-topologized yet, but I don't think I could ever get them in skyrim anyway.

 

 

 

Or am i totally missing something here and the armor is skinned to the skeleton regardless and FNIS-compatible armor mods wouldnt exist anyway, just the body mod + physics variations?

True. You are missing something. FNIS has nothing common with armors. It implements animations, animations can be "BBP compatible", for example. And this compatibility provided by using "weighted bones" (skeleton provided). As simple as I can explain. I'm not animator myself. Yet.

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Ok, so simply put, I can disregard the suggestions in Neo's guide for UNPB, and the other physics-related mods?

 

The big thing that was getting me was UNBP-BBB compatible armors or whatever, but I care nothing for those and I don't think it causes conflicts if I don't want to use BBB physics. The only animations I care for are combat and a very select few idle animations. - the only 2 issues with immersive animations is my 1h draw/sheath is a dual wield animation from the back, and with 1h sword and dagger is kinda the same... the dagger is pulled from over the shoulder, but thats ok lol.

 

I can't stand how most of the body mods alter the theme drastically. With it now working, I am about to revert back to my original body mod and remove the UNPB mod - if I am grasping this right then it doesnt matter because im using a FNIS compatible skeleton and I have proper animation packs installed, right?

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BBP armors/clothing will cause a crash if you do not have BBP enabled. You can use non-BBP armor/clothing with BBP, but not vice versa.

 

Also UNPB is not the same as BBP. UNPB makes the breasts larger on UNP bodies but has no "physics" - if you use plain UNP clothing/armor even if UNPB installed you will just get a smaller bust size and vice versa. BBP makes the breasts bouncy and requires an appropriate skeleton to enable these animations.

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Everything I seem to look at on the body mods has entirely too many acronyms, but I tend to avoid CBBE, UNPB, and BBB. Trying to stay as close to vanilla as possible, but the original body proportions (not breast) were terrible, same goes for male imo, but there is a severe lack of those mods around, non-nude preferred for both genders. As I said, I use Dimonized UNP Skinny version, if there are others that are better suited for lore-friendly play, im open ears :).

 

As for the animations, everything seems to be working properly, but I dont quite understand the toggle option for "Skeleton Arm Patch" in the "Generate FNIS for user.exe" app.

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Neo uses UNP Blessed because, according to this post, it provides more breast size variation and more realistic butt/ankle/leg than UNP alone. You don't have to use the BBP part of the mod if you don't want to, or even use the mod at all.

 

May as well say that both UNP and Better Males (the male body replacer Neo uses) come with non-nude versions, since that seems to be a concern for you. However, the latest version of UNP Blessed does not come with a non-nude version, in case you decide to use that. That being said... Calyps and Nuska are collaborating on a female body mod of their own (link NSFW), which seems more aimed for players like you. Still an alpha, but one worth tracking. And it has a non-nude version.

 

Also, as for the toggle option.. what about it? If the checkmark is checked, then the arm fix will be applied to all animations. Don't know why you are struggling...

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