Snowy Pine billboards look terrible, can't figure out why

[jmeyer73]

https://streamable.com/2nbbds

I'm using happy little trees with the dyndolod addon. Using these mesh settings. I tried changing the billboard brightness setting, but it doesn't help. I'm at a loss at this point so anything helps. I generated on a vanilla setup and I have the same problem there so it isn't a conflict.

[sheson]

1 hour ago, z929669 said:

I can confirm [CRC32:B6E863C7] is from the Performance version of HLT treepineforest05, because the Quality version CRC is different. T4 created the Performance crowns directly from the LOD models of the Quality version.

Is the difference in being able to control their brightness by DynDOLOD/TexGen due to the different clamp mode and UV?

We still don't know what LOD is or not, since no screens with/wo tll have been provided.

The performance version has no vertex colors, which equals vertex colors being all white. They can not go any higher, thus that feature multiplying the vertex colors can not be used to make them brighter, only darker.

[jmeyer73]

8 hours ago, z929669 said:

I can confirm [CRC32:B6E863C7] is from the Performance version of HLT treepineforest05, because the Quality version CRC is different. T4 created the Performance crowns directly from the LOD models of the Quality version.

Is the difference in being able to control their brightness by DynDOLOD/TexGen due to the different clamp mode and UV?

We still don't know what LOD is or not, since no screens with/wo tll have been provided.

You mentioned trying the quality version at the beginning of this thread, I forgot to mention it but I did try switching and I didn't notice any difference. 

16 hours ago, sheson said:

Assuming the red line separates full models from LOD. The darker LOD trees go away with tll in console, while the bright full model trees in the foreground remain. If that is not the case, report that and ignore below.

You seem to be using the Happy Little Trees 3D LOD - Performance version for the first LOD level 4.
The brightness of the crowns can not be increased by any settings in TexGen or DynDOLOD. You would have to edit the NIFs or the diffuse textures as reported by DynDOLOD_SSE_Object_Report.txt for them directly.

For example:
TreePineForest05 [TREE:00051126] Meshes\landscape\trees\treepineforest05.nif [CRC32:187F28FC] using textures\landscape\trees\northern hemispheres\pineatlas.dds, textures\landscape\trees\northern hemispheres\pineatlas_n.dds, textures\landscape\trees\northern hemispheres\pinebark.dds, textures\landscape\trees\northern hemispheres\pinebark_n.dds 
    Level0: meshes\dyndolod\lod\trees\treepineforest05_187f28fcpassthru_lod.nif [CRC32:B6E863C7] using textures\lod\happylittletrees\pineforest05.dds, textures\lod\happylittletrees\pineforest05_n.dds, textures\dyndolod\lod\trees\treepineforest05_187f28fc_trunk_1.dds, textures\dyndolod\lod\trees\treepineforest05_187f28fc_trunk_1_n.dds, textures\dyndolod\lod\trees\treepineforest05_187f28fc_trunk_2.dds, textures\dyndolod\lod\trees\treepineforest05_187f28fc_trunk_2_n.dds
 

Maybe test the Happy Little Trees 3D LOD - Quality version. If they are used, you can change increase the crown brightness via an INI setting https://dyndolod.info/Help/Ultra-Tree-LOD#3D-Tree-LOD-Brightness. This setting can only make be used to make the crowns of the performance version darker.

Here is a comparison with and without TLL. It doesn't look as you describe it.

[z929669]

2 hours ago, jmeyer73 said:

You mentioned trying the quality version at the beginning of this thread, I forgot to mention it but I did try switching and I didn't notice any difference.

There is a difference, and you will be able to use the advice I gave earlier about increasing TexGen Ambient. If you want to fix your problem, you should follow the advice. This isn't a DynDOLOD or HLT issue. It's a configuration-settings issue that is easily resolvable (or 'improvable').

2 hours ago, jmeyer73 said:

Here is a comparison with and without TLL. It doesn't look as you describe it.

Those screens do not share the same field of view. Based on your tll screenshot, I must assume that nearly every tree in your first screenshot is LOD. I must further assume that most of the trees at left are LOD4 (full crowns in object LOD) while the darker ones at right are LOD8/16 (billboard crowns in object LOD). That alone explains some of the difference. The rest is occlusion of light by the mountain, due to it being sunset/dusk or nearly so.

1. Go into the game, and find a view that shows your problem (at midday, not at sunset/dusk and under clear weather ideally)
2. Take a screenshot (don't move)
3. Use console tll
4. Take another screenshot

Now we'll see what exactly is LOD in the first screen versus not LOD from second screen.

[sheson]

11 hours ago, jmeyer73 said:

You mentioned trying the quality version at the beginning of this thread, I forgot to mention it but I did try switching and I didn't notice any difference. 

Here is a comparison with and without TLL. It doesn't look as you describe it.

I was referring to this screenshot https://imgur.com/sxyjwOg. The new screenshot shows a different scene, so it is still unclear if the red line separates LOD from full models or if it separates two LOD levels. In that case changing billboard brightness in DynDOLOD and/or TexGen will affect those, using different Billboard1-6 settings for LOD Level 8 and 16 will also have an effect. Billboard 4 should typically have the best results. Consider using the same BillboardX for the 8/16 LOD levels.

In any case. the new screenshot shows that the tree LOD matches the full models pretty well and there is no darker trees further away.
So the problem seems to be fixed?

[jmeyer73]

8 hours ago, z929669 said:

There is a difference, and you will be able to use the advice I gave earlier about increasing TexGen Ambient. If you want to fix your problem, you should follow the advice. This isn't a DynDOLOD or HLT issue. It's a configuration-settings issue that is easily resolvable (or 'improvable').

Thanks, I switched to quality and it let me change the ambient which solved it. Unfortunately the performance is significantly worse, with "optimal" settings overlooking falkreath I go from a constant 70 fps to 55. Is a 21% performance hit expected? If it is, do you know of a way to change the ambient setting with the performance version?

[sheson]

18 minutes ago, jmeyer73 said:

Thanks, I switched to quality and it let me change the ambient which solved it. Unfortunately the performance is significantly worse, with "optimal" settings overlooking falkreath I go from a constant 70 fps to 55. Is a 21% performance hit expected? If it is, do you know of a way to change the ambient setting with the performance version?

The "quality" version of treepineforest05_187F28FCpassthru_lod and treepineforestsnow04_27AAF40Dpassthru_lod.nif use textures\landscape\trees\northern hemispheres\pineatlas.dds for the crown. This texture is the same as the one used by the full models. This texture is not affected by TexGen, especially not by the render settings for HD tree LOD billboards.

If changes to the HD Tree settings in TexGen have an effect, then it means billboards were changed. According to the logs, billboards are used for the higher 8/16 LOD levels.

I already explained how to change the brightness of 3D tree LOD assets. In case https://dyndolod.info/Help/Ultra-Tree-LOD#3D-Tree-LOD-Brightness does not work because of the explained technical reasons, then you will have to edit the NIFs or textures directly.

[jmeyer73]

20 minutes ago, sheson said:

The "quality" version of treepineforest05_187F28FCpassthru_lod and treepineforestsnow04_27AAF40Dpassthru_lod.nif use textures\landscape\trees\northern hemispheres\pineatlas.dds for the crown. This texture is the same as the one used by the full models. This texture is not affected by TexGen, especially not by the render settings for HD tree LOD billboards.

If changes to the HD Tree settings in TexGen have an effect, then it means billboards were changed. According to the logs, billboards are used for the higher 8/16 LOD levels.

I already explained how to change the brightness of 3D tree LOD assets. In case https://dyndolod.info/Help/Ultra-Tree-LOD#3D-Tree-LOD-Brightness does not work because of the explained technical reasons, then you will have to edit the NIFs or textures directly.

Apologies, but I'm not sure we are on the same page, or perhaps I'm just tired, or my terminology is wrong. I don't need to change the brightness of the 3D tree LOD. I need to change the brightness of the billboards on Level 8/16. For the quality version, changing the hd tree ambient setting in texgen does exactly that. But with the performance version, increasing the ambient setting has no effect. I don't know why that is. Is there maybe a way to use the performance 3D tree LOD assets with the quality billboards?

Edited August 24, 2024 by jmeyer73

[sheson]

18 minutes ago, jmeyer73 said:

Apologies, but I'm not sure we are on the same page, or perhaps I'm just tired, or my terminology is wrong. I don't need to change the brightness of the 3D tree LOD. I need to change the brightness of the billboards on Level 8/16. For the quality version, changing the hd tree ambient setting in texgen does exactly that. But with the performance version, increasing the ambient setting has no effect. I don't know why that is. Is there maybe a way to use the performance 3D tree LOD assets with the quality billboards?

Happy Little Trees Add-On - DynDOLOD 3 contains 3D tree LOD assets. 3D tree LOD is only used in LOD Level 4 because "Level0" is set for the tree mesh rule.

Tree LOD billboards are rendered by TexGen from full models and full textures. They are used in LOD level 8/16 because BillboardX is set for them in tree mesh rule. Their brightness can be changed in TexGen and/or DynDOLOD billboard brightness setting.

If/What version of 3D tree LOD models are installed is irrelevant for tree LOD billboards generation and their brightness.

[jmeyer73]

4 minutes ago, sheson said:

If/What version of 3D tree LOD models are installed is irrelevant for tree LOD billboards generation and their brightness that are used in LOD level 8/16.

This is where I am confused. If it is irrelevant, why can I only increase the ambient hd tree brightness in texgen with the quality version, but not with the performance version? 

[sheson]

21 minutes ago, jmeyer73 said:

This is where I am confused. If it is irrelevant, why can I only increase the ambient hd tree brightness in texgen with the quality version, but not with the performance version? 

I do not know why you believe that.

I suggest to use the preview button in TexGen to see the result of different settings.
Then make sure that the TexGen output is installed and overwrites everything.
Then check the billboard textures in that TexGen output with in an image viewer (there is one build into MO2).
Those will be the billboards DynDOLOD will use when it generates the LOD patch.

[z929669]

You can also try the Performance version again, setting Level0 at LOD4, Level1 at LOD8, and Level2 at LOD16 (or leave at Billboard1 at LOD16 with even higher TexGen Ambient). Maybe performance will be better and things will look good.