CTD at 3.1GB

[viking]

Some key posts on this and related threads (experts feel free to note any errors or insights):

• Post #11
• Post #27
• Post #40 (this is where the 500/430 ratio seems to have originated.)
• Post #66
• Post#278
• Post #313
• Post #1 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #64 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #68 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #70 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)

Wiki article (draft)

 

Thanks,

STEP

 

OP follows

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First of all I wanted to thank you all for the great work you have done with STEP. Skyrim is the first game I installed on this computer and you guys have made it an AMAZING game. That being said, I have an issue that I hope you can help me solve.

 

My setup:

Vanilla Skyrim

gtx670 w/ 4GB @1080p w/ latest driver

16GB Memory

3770K at about 4GHz

Windows 8 64bit

ENB 149

Ultra settings

Highest available texture/quality

Mod Organizer

Step 2.2.1 + Skyrim Revisited + others

 

I have noticed a post here and there saying that Skyrim can't really address more than about 3.1GB of memory without issues. This seems to jive with my experience, meaning I CTD every time my memory hits that mark, but I couldn't really find anything definitive on the topic. The issue with googling the topic is the pre 1.3 skyrim that couldn't address more than 2gb of memory.

 

My mod list is mostly based on STEP which is why I came here for help, with about ten mods added onto the end (Interesting NPCs, Detailed Cities, Economics, COT, and a couple others). The reason I haven't included my mod list is that it doesn't seem to matter. As long as I keep the memory usage below 3GB I can have pretty much any combination of mods.

 

What I have tried so far (in no particular order):

• resetting ini files
• removing enb
• not using attklt
• only using a new game
• removing all mods and adding one by one until issue crops up
• running as admin
• watching the papyrus log - it seems relatively clean, no obvious errors right before CTD

Yes, I can run STEP just fine without any issues, but I also never get near 3GB of memory. I have tracked VRAM usage as well and have seen a max of 2.7GB/4GB.

 

As an example of where I might run into issues: I start a new character with Alternate Start. I start with Breezehome. Run out of Whiterun, past the Brewry, up the hill to the bandits. Enter the cave (watching memory usage with Elys MemInfo), and it dies right after I see 3GB. I have this same issue not using AS, sitting through the intro, and then running over to whiterun.

 

I'm sorry if this post is all over the place. I have spent more than a week trying to solve this issue, and the only solution I have found is to reduce memory usage. I have got to the point where I can exchange two texture packs and get into the cave without a CTD, but with both I get a CTD. I didn't even think texture packs should even affect CTDs, but I'm relatively new to Skyrim on the PC, so I could be wrong. I also found I could get a bit further with ENB turned off, but would still crash once I got above 3GB of memory. Finally, if I reload a game after a CTD, I can play just fine...until I reach 3GB of memory.

 

I really hope you guys can help. I more than willing to try anything at this point, besides just disabling all of the mods.

[z929669]

Seriously though, use DDSopt to tweak textures. This application includes several optimizations that OT does not. The algorithm used to re-mip for starters. It is very easy to use and will in many cases reduce texture footprints without changing resolution.

 

Theoretically, OT does some of these things, but it is not clear if it does or how it does it.

 

Also, be on the lookout for NIF optimization. Visit the NifTools site and prod them to spur devel of PyFFI solutions that work for Skyrim NIFs. This is a big need right now, especially for winning back FPS in addition to VRAM.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[z929669]

Seriously though, use DDSopt to tweak textures. This application includes several optimizations that OT does not. The algorithm used to re-mip for starters. It is very easy to use and will in many cases reduce texture footprints without changing resolution.

 

Theoretically, OT does some of these things, but it is not clear if it does or how it does it.

 

Also, be on the lookout for NIF optimization. Visit the NifTools site and prod them to spur devel of PyFFI solutions that work for Skyrim NIFs. This is a big need right now, especially for winning back FPS in addition to VRAM.

Unfortunately the only issue I'm having is the 3 gb RAM CTD. VRAM is 2.7 GB out of 3 GB which is fine and my fps is basically a constant 60 even with extreme S.T.E.P. It's just the damn RAM issue :(. I really hope someone can figure out a loophole for this because I feel that more and more users are going to run into this problem as they upgrade their rigs and try to run extreme step. 

But optimization and VRAM utilization will also translate into RAM savings for the process. I believe that this has been established on this thread somewhere.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[Gyro]

 

 

Seriously though, use DDSopt to tweak textures. This application includes several optimizations that OT does not. The algorithm used to re-mip for starters. It is very easy to use and will in many cases reduce texture footprints without changing resolution.

 

Theoretically, OT does some of these things, but it is not clear if it does or how it does it.

 

Also, be on the lookout for NIF optimization. Visit the NifTools site and prod them to spur devel of PyFFI solutions that work for Skyrim NIFs. This is a big need right now, especially for winning back FPS in addition to VRAM.

Unfortunately the only issue I'm having is the 3 gb RAM CTD. VRAM is 2.7 GB out of 3 GB which is fine and my fps is basically a constant 60 even with extreme S.T.E.P. It's just the damn RAM issue :(. I really hope someone can figure out a loophole for this because I feel that more and more users are going to run into this problem as they upgrade their rigs and try to run extreme step. 

But optimization and VRAM utilization will also translate into RAM savings for the process. I believe that this has been established on this thread somewhere.

The author of HD DLC Optimized said:

 

"Unfortunately no, reducing texture size saves VRAM only, to save RAM you have to look for a completely different mod I suppose... or remove some scrip-intensive mods!"

Is the author aware that Skyrim mirrors textures in RAM? I don't know how commonly well known that is.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[Neovalen]

Its a combo 32bit + Bethesdas aged engine.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[Neovalen]

Its a combo 32bit + Bethesdas aged engine.

Well at least we know it's a real cause so that modders who are hitting 3 gb RAM don't need to go through every single mod to determine why they CTD. Do you think there is a mod or a tweak that can alleviate this issue? Or is this just how it is? 

 

Think we're screwed unless Bethesda does something about it.

[z929669]

Optimize, optimize, optimize .... reduce, reduce, reduce ;)

 

I still think that it is definitely best to have 2-3 GB VRAM, regardless.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[JVorn]

So let me share my experience.  I have full STEP 2.2.3+ extreme max everything.  After finishing that install, I started crashing all the effin time to the point where I gave up for a bit.  I then posted this thread and took Flytraps advice.  As you can see in my screenshots in that thread, every time my RAM hit 3.1+, insta crash.  I downloaded Optimizer Textures as per Flytraps advice and the ONLY option I checked was to resize if size was > 2k, and ran it on my whole Mod Organizer mod folder.  After it was done I have yet to crash, and the visual trade off was almost unnoticeable for me, it still looks great.  Here are my last two skyrim runs after texture resize, each is several hours of play with no crashes.

 

    

 

As you can see I never hit 3.1 GB RAM, and even though my VRAM is maxed out the whole time... no crash.  I think STEP is gonna have to start recommending only 2k textures after a certain point because everyone is gonna start crashing like this, and as others have said, its a Skyrim being 32 bit limitation, not a PC hardware limitation (I have 16 GB RAM, SSD, 8 core CPU, the works)

[z929669]

The solution is really to optimize textures and meshes in exteriors. Interiors (including dungeons) can use 4K textures or higher. Even exteriors can exceed in some cases, but we have yet to determine the situations and places that demand the highest texture/mesh loads.

 

We need more performance data by mod ....

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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