new z-fighting lod texture flickering issues / mitigation advice?

[Soulmancer]

Hello sir,  these are my current Dyndolod settings:  High preset with these following options enabled.  http://icecream.me/uploads/ac7743c3a4639873361c5c648854e980.png

 

I don't recall having this issue prior but since regenerating my texgen and dyndolod I am encountering increased z-fighting / texture flickering on object lods.

 

I am using the newest version of HD Lod SE 9.3 Dyndolod version.  I also using Noble Skyrim to match the lods.  The noble textures and HD lods in question are not being overwritten by any other mod assets.

 

I have recently changed my snow textures though.  I was using Cathedral Landcapes, now using Majestic Landscapes if that could have anything to do with it?  I have also switched from Majestic Mountains to Northfire Mountains... I have ran texgen/dyndolod since doing that although I have not yet re-created my terrain lods via xlodgen if that could be a contributing factor.

 

Looking toward bleakfalls barrow and the bandit tower next to it..  I am just standing still and the top of the tower and back end of bleak falls ruins is flickering. 

 

It looks like snow on the upper half/roof of the tower is fighting with the stone surface... once I reach the tower though the snow seems to vanish completely. 

snow on the top of the tower: https://i.imgur.com/18Yxg3m.jpg

snow clipping into the tower structure: https://i.imgur.com/qEf0IfP.jpg

Then once you get even closer, the snow is gone entirely.

 

 

[sheson]

Q: Game: Out of place objects / floating objects / flickering full models 

 

A: If LOD was generated for a different load order generate LOD for the current load order.

 

A: Test with new game, wait in the exterior for the DynDOLOD initialized message before moving. If problem goes away, the updating of an existing save game with old DynDOLOD.esp went wrong. Follow instructions how to update save game with a new DynDOLOD.esp. RTFM, watch the video or check DynDOLOD SkyUI MCM. The clean save routine can also be redone with the same plugin to reset everything. 

 

A: If the load order had script lag and deactivating/activating from the DynDOLOD SkyUI MCM main page does not reset out of place objects, do the clean save routine where "old" and "new" plugin are the same. Consider generating less demanding dynamic LOD, see 'Performance' section in ..DynDOLOD\Docs\DynDOLOD_Manual.html 

 

A: Wild edit added by a plugin. Check the DynDOLOD log for messages about wild edits. Use console in the game and click on object to retrieve the form id. Look up the form id in xEdit and remove the reference, clean plugin afterwards. Notify mod author. If object is added by DynDOLOD.esp, follow the "pluginname_formid" information found in the Editor ID of the reference to find the plugin from which this object originates. 

 

A: Deleted record by a dirty plugin. Check the log for messages about deleted references by dirty plugins. Clean all UDRs and ITMs from dirty plugins.

 

A: Sometimes LOD objects are placed on top of other objects without LOD and thus appear to float in the distance. Use mesh rules so that the object has no LOD or that the other object also has LOD. 

 

A: Game engine limitation. If the game enables objects that have static object LOD, the entire static object LOD for a cell may briefly show with the full models at the same time. Since now more objects have LOD this might be more obvious than before, especially while playing the intro. Consider installing the generated LOD mod after completing the intro. 

 

A: If the problems is stuck object LOD in Whiterun after fast travel, change Distant Object Detail on the View Distance tab of the Advanced options of the games launcher from Ultra to High. Alternatively try just slightly changing the value fBlockLevel0Distance=60000 in SkyrimPrefs.ini to 57000. 

 

A: Some mods are made with disregard to generating LOD or require updated rules and configs for best compatibility. This is especially true with mods modifying the walled cities. Users are asked and welcome to provide feedback to https://forum.step-project.com/forum/101-shesons-dyndolod-support in order to get everything working with as much compatibility as possible. Include a link to the mod and screenshots (with console / form id) about issues if possible. 

 

A: Flickering textures (full and LOD model showing at the same time) in the LOD area outside the active cells in Skyrim Special Edition and Skyrim VR are caused by plugins triggering the large reference bugs as explained in ..DynDOLOD\Docs\DynDOLOD_Manual_SSE.html. Verify if the problem goes away by setting uLargeRefLODGridSize=5 in SkyrimPrefs.ini.

 

A: If the problem is stuck object LOD in loaded cells, it can be caused by uLockedObjectMapLOD=32 in Skyrim.ini.

 

 

Sounds a lot like large reference bugs to me.

Edited November 4, 2020 by sheson

[Soulmancer]

Ok thanks.  I'll give that a try! I am testing on a new game.  I start in the prison and wait for all the mod starts ups to complete before selecting the camping start in the woods and wait for dyndolod to initialize.

 

Thanks for all the potential solutions. I'll let you know if I fix in and report what I did.

 

I assume using HD Lod SE performance version vs the full version would change nothing in this regard?  I may also go from 512 texgen/dyndolod to 256 in the next build but I gather that unrelated to this?  as is the medium vs high dyndolod preset?

 

I also use BethINI and use the "BethINI recommended Ultra LOD settings"

[sheson]

LOD testing with a "new" game can be done with coc Riverwood or coc Whiterun etc. from main menu.

 

Texture resolution does not matter. Running out of VRAM does not causes z-fighting - which typically is two models occupying the same 3D space.

 

Also in case of the tower, low, medium, high settings should all generate the exact same LOD for it.

[Soulmancer]

Hello!

 

Yes, changing this to 5 seems to have fixed the issue.  It was set at 11, which is apparently default.

 

Should I now read the section of the manual "/DynDOLOD/Docs/SkyrimSELargeRefGrid/SkyrimSE-LargeRefGrid.html" to find the potential plugin causing the bug? and to possibly fix it beyond this '5' setting?

 

running that xEdit script for instance?

Edited November 6, 2020 by Soulmancer

[sheson]

The DynDOLOD log lists all modified large references and the plugin do the changes.

 

Only ESM flagged files supports adding/modifying large references without triggering the bugs the way non flagged plugins do.

 

Use the Skyrim SE - Generate Large References.pas script in case an ESM adds new references in existing or new worlds and you want them to be large references (if they meet the criteria). In case large reference bugs are triggered by an ESM modifying a large reference, using the script to update the overwriting ESM might help.

Edited November 6, 2020 by sheson

[Soulmancer]

I do notice their is also a Large Ref fix option in the dyndolod MCM? would that not help?

 

Also, it has been suggested to run this script on my entire load order? https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/40260?

 

Do you know much about it?

[sheson]

No, obviously.

 

From DynDOLOD_Manual_SSE.html

 

The user needs to enable or disable the Large Reference Fix toggle, since it is not possible to determine the current setting through normal papyrus scripting. The GetINI/SetINI functions do not work with unsigned integers.

 

If the large reference system is used (uLargeRefLODGridSize > uGridsToLoad), the Large Reference Fix checkbox should be checked, so that dynamic LOD objects for large references in the FarGrid switch correctly.

 

If uLargeRefLODGridSize is turned off (uLargeRefLODGridSize

 

The setting can be changed at any time, however it is suggested to do the switching in an interior (or go into inside after the change), so the new setting can be applied correctly to all affected dynamic LOD objects once going outside again.

 

I do not know anything about that script.

 

Technically, any plugin that modifies large references (or bad LE ports that do not update the data flag on MSTT base records) is (visually) incompatible with Skyrim Special Edition. One would expect mod authors to know about such a long explained and famous issues and create plugins that do not trigger bugs. Some have. In case there is a reason a plugin has to be an ESP (converting seems risky), I would move only the large reference overwrites to a new plugin with ESL/ESM flags - typically they are visual edits . It's very rare that a large reference is used by a script or has an enable parent (and in that case the bugs are often triggered regardless of plugin type, so I wouldn't bother with them).

 

The bugs are not always very prominent, so I would try to single out the cells and were they are the most obvious.

Edited November 7, 2020 by sheson

[Soulmancer]

More light on the subject.  Can you elaborate more on the "57000" setting for Lod4?

 

with the presence of JonnyWang z-fighting patch BethINI will automatically set Lod 4 to 90000 so this could have been contributing to my problem?

[sheson]

More light on the subject.  Can you elaborate more on the "57000" setting for Lod4?

 

with the presence of JonnyWang z-fighting patch BethINI will automatically set Lod 4 to 90000 so this could have been contributing to my problem?

But 90000 is not 60000, so it should be fine.

 

Didn't you already determine that disabling the large reference system by setting uLargeRefLODGridSize=5 fixed it?

 

The stuck object LOD after fast travel happens either way.

Edited November 8, 2020 by sheson

[SenseiJT92]

did you disable the HD LOD resources pack? The author doesn't say to do it on the page, but it's similar to majestic and cathedral packs that it SHOULD be done - removing it (after running DYNDOLOD) has fixed a lot of the z-fighting I was experiencing 

[sheson]

did you disable the HD LOD resources pack? The author doesn't say to do it on the page, but it's similar to majestic and cathedral packs that it SHOULD be done - removing it (after running DYNDOLOD) has

fixed a lot of the z-fighting I was experiencing 

It is not really clear what you mean by HD LOD Resources Pack as there is no such download file.

[SenseiJT92]

Hi Sheson - I was referring to this mod --

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/3333?tab=posts

 

Based on your experience, would this need to be disabled after LOD generation or not? I'm using the dyndolod version, similar to the OP.

[sheson]

Hi Sheson - I was referring to this mod --

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/3333?tab=posts

 

Based on your experience, would this need to be disabled after LOD generation or not? I'm using the dyndolod version, similar to the OP.

It is not clear what you mean by "this". The entire mod? No of course not.

 

Object/Tree LOD is generated for the plugins and assets (meshes and textures) currently in the load order. If the load order changes, then the LOD will not visually match anymore.

 

Specifically, as already explained, meshes and textures used for object LOD generation should not be disabled after LOD generation.

 

If you want to disable something because it does not fit or work well, it should not be part of the load order anymore while generating LOD.

Edited November 15, 2020 by sheson

[SenseiJT92]

Ok I think I understand what you're saying - but in that case, why do certain DynDOLOD resource packs (such as cathedral landscape and majestic mountains) need to be disabled after generation?

 

These are the files I'm using - so you're saying the HD Lods shouldn't be disabled after generation - but I don't understand how it's different to the other two.

 

Thanks for your help

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by SenseiJT92

[SenseiJT92]

Ok I think I understand what you're saying - but in that case, why do certain DynDOLOD resource packs (such as cathedral landscape and majestic mountains) need to be disabled after generation?

 

These are the files I'm using - so you're saying the HD Lods shouldn't be disabled after generation - but I don't understand how it's different to the other two.

 

Thanks for your help

 

I know you said this in the other thread:

 

"If a mod includes special landscape textures only for terrain LOD texture generation, then those textures obviously need to be disabled again.

 

 

 

If a mod includes object LOD assets (meshes or textures), then those need to stay active after object LOD generation as they might be used directly as well."

 

I guess I'm just struggling to understand how to tell which mods only include 'special textures' and therefore should be disabled, versus ones that include assets.

I know you said this in the other thread:

"If a mod includes special landscape textures only for terrain LOD texture generation, then those textures obviously need to be disabled again.

 

If a mod includes object LOD assets (meshes or textures), then those need to stay active after object LOD generation as they might be used directly as well."

I guess I'm just struggling to understand how to tell which mods only include 'special textures' and therefore should be disabled, versus ones that include assets.

OK, thinking about it some more - are you saying that some mods, like cathedral LOD special textures, are only used in generation to CREATE LOD assets, whereas some mods (like HD LOD SSE) include those assets and therefore shouldn't be disabled?

 

I think I can get my head around this if so.