Performance vs Quality balance. all things lod

[Soulmancer]

No doubt the answer will depend on individual systems but xlod and dyndolod have many extensive options, but I'd like to try to eek out a bit more performance if I can.

 

I am currently using 512 across the board for texgen, xlodgen (lod 16 and 32 is 256) and dyndolod... is there any screen shots that compare 256 vs 512 vs 1024 ?

 

I do use this as well https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/3333

 

I am using the performance friendly version of 512, which probably makes the most sense since I am 512 elsewhere for the most part.

 

 

With regards to xlodgen how much difference does the "quality" value make on performance vs quality? currently I am 4/8/12/12.

 

Lastly I used this article for ultra trees https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/articles/570

 

Obviously the lod 4 to static lod 4 for trees is the important.  Is changing the near lod to far lod though also important as this article suggests?

 

My ultra 3d trees look awesome, but seems like a 5-10 fps hit on my system using that article settings (I use EVT custom small vanilla branches)

Edited March 13, 2020 by Soulmancer

[sheson]

The only one that can answer most of these questions is yourself. The performance impact different settings have highly depend on the load order and the hardware. If the visuals are satisfactory depends on personal preference.

 

I am not in the habit of testing different settings to see what minuscule performance differences they might have. I am spending thousands of hours programming and making sure things work correctly as it is.

 

Changing LOD distances in the DynDOLOD SkyUI MCM might even be the easiest way to adjust performance after the fact... and together with tll in console give a hint of the impact of terrain, object (and tree) LOD has in general.

 

Read the DynDOLOD\Docs\DynDOLOD_Manual.html Performance chapter.

Read DynDOLOD\Docs\trees.ultra\DynDOLOD-Trees.html

 

The default Grid for trees is probably negligible as there aren't that many trees being done as dynamic LOD - the Whiterun Gildergreen has its own setting. I doubt a performance difference can be measured for the vanilla game. But this could all be different with just one mod that for some reason has lots of dynamic trees, which brings me back to: only you can do the tests and answer the questions if the visuals you desire are worth the performance impact.

[Soulmancer]

Is it fairly typical to use half the size for normals vs the diffuse? I noticed your screen shots you posted were 512 diffuse and 256 normals... lexy's guide also does this same. 

[sheson]

The Terrain-LOD-Readme.txt explains the native max resolutions of the terrain normal data.

 

Normal Size - texture resolution in pixels. See hints for native resolutions per LOD level. Higher resolutions are just a resize - see the hint message for the size that is native to the data (typically 256x256 for LOD4, 512x512 for LOD8 etc.), but can be useful because of compression and when baking normal-maps. Remember that each increase in resolution quadruples the resources and times needed to generate the textures. Higher than 1024 will start to take some serious time.

 

Without baking the normal maps from the landscape textures, higher normal resolutions will not have more detail.

[Soulmancer]

There do seem to be some varied recommendations.   For example Lexy's guide.

 

1. LOD4 quality 5; Build Diffuse Size 512, Build Normal Size 256, Protect Borders, Format BC7 Quick 
2. LOD8 quality 10; Build Diffuse Size 256, Build Normal Size 128, Optimize Unseen On, Format BC7 Quick - 
3. LOD16 quality 10; Build Diffuse Size 256, Build Normal Size 128, Optimize Unseen On, Format BC7 Quick -
4. LOD32 quality 15; Build Diffuse Size 256, Build Normal Size 128, Optimize Unseen 550, Format BC7 Quick - 

 

Jtharpla seems to do the opposite for Cathedral Landscapes with further LODs having increased size, starting with lod 4 and only 128/128 (quality = 3) and lod 32 at 512/256 (quality = 12)

 

What is the logic in that approach? (higher size for further lods vs smaller size for closer lods) ?

Edited March 14, 2020 by Soulmancer

[sheson]

Read How LOD works in the DynDOLOD manual. It  has this helpful image:
 

 
Each higher LOD level covers 4 times the area and the increase is not fully compensated by the distance.

In any case, I suggest to try different resolutions yourself and compare the visual and resource impact for your load order.

 

I can not answer why guides suggest this or that. Ask their author.

Edited March 14, 2020 by sheson

[Soulmancer]

Ok thanks, in the event I decide to re-run xlodgen at a different resolution or quality, would running texgen and dyndolod again be recommended following that?

[sheson]

You only need to run TexGen if source textures changed.

 

You only need to run DynDOLOD if anything object or tree models or textures changed or in case there are terrain height changes and you updated terrain LOD meshes.

[Parl]

What is the reference for the 5 cells my character stands on in the LOD level image?

Lets take the LOD 4 level. That immediate square with the -8 is part of my 5 cells my character is centered on?

But still my 5 cells I am centered on would not form a square that LOD 4 could be on the edges of.

or can 5 cells form a square, I would think not.

I'm thinking to go ahead with LOD 4 regardless and take your advice to move the LODS out with MCM.

I'm hoping to not see the object/LOD swap but just the object when I arrive.

You seem to not have a strong opinion about LOD levels making a difference besides using more resources as they increase

so I will go with LOD 4.

[sheson]

On 12/1/2023 at 8:49 AM, Parl said:

What is the reference for the 5 cells my character stands on in the LOD level image?

Lets take the LOD 4 level. That immediate square with the -8 is part of my 5 cells my character is centered on?

But still my 5 cells I am centered on would not form a square that LOD 4 could be on the edges of.

or can 5 cells form a square, I would think not.

I'm thinking to go ahead with LOD 4 regardless and take your advice to move the LODS out with MCM.

I'm hoping to not see the object/LOD swap but just the object when I arrive.

You seem to not have a strong opinion about LOD levels making a difference besides using more resources as they increase

so I will go with LOD 4.

Read https://dyndolod.info/How-LOD-Works
The image on top shows the active cells grid of 5x5 cells. All LOD has been disabled in the image with tll in console. LOD shows beyond the active cell grid. LOD always shows the levels 4, 8, 16 and 32 for terrain LOD according to the distance settings. The LOD distance settings do not change where LOD starts, they define how far a LOD level shows.

[MiTxGam3r]

So I have a rather extensive modlist 204 total ESP/ESM with 1069 ESLs game runs fine base with silent horizens ENB preset. Once i set up all the LOD stuff setup I can boot the game and Id be lucky to get 1 fast travel before I get the ILS. If i disable the LOD it works. Is there any easy to understand guide on FPS friendly LOD Gen without loosing too much quality?

[sheson]

48 minutes ago, MiTxGam3r said:

So I have a rather extensive modlist 204 total ESP/ESM with 1069 ESLs game runs fine base with silent horizens ENB preset. Once i set up all the LOD stuff setup I can boot the game and Id be lucky to get 1 fast travel before I get the ILS. If i disable the LOD it works. Is there any easy to understand guide on FPS friendly LOD Gen without loosing too much quality?

The result depends on the load order, mods, mod authors having a clue, used settings, users having a clue etc. The combinations and reasons for the outcome or any issues are endless.

Such a problem can be caused by one record, one  asset or by general problem by using too high settings overloading the engine or a badly configured OS.

The best way is to either learn tings by following a modding guide for a known lits of mods that work well together with specific instructions for balanced LOD generation or to spend the time to start with the low base settings without enabling all the optional stuff and then enable or increase things in careful steps and compare results.

https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#Performance
https://dyndolod.info/Help/Performance
https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#Long-running-time-or-output-several-GB-in-file-size
https://dyndolod.info/Help/Texture-Resolution
https://dyndolod.info/Help/xLODGen

[MiTxGam3r]

So I ran a test same mod list with same enb but disabled fable forrest. re ran the generation and still had issues with CTD and ILS on the vanilla landscape. 

I tried doing less world cells and that also made no difference. however game will run fine without dyndolod active. But I have decided to do a fresh install on MO2 and the game an I am following the the modders guide v2.3 to the letter. So far only up to the performace testing steps however the nexus is down....

Only question I did have with the v2.3 guide is it possible to make the CC picker work or dowse it cause issues? 

 

EDIT

Possibly going to look at the community shaders option as it seems to be more performace friendly.  

Edited September 10 by MiTxGam3r
forgot to mention something

[sheson]

On 9/10/2024 at 12:18 PM, MiTxGam3r said:

So I ran a test same mod list with same enb but disabled fable forrest. re ran the generation and still had issues with CTD and ILS on the vanilla landscape. 

I tried doing less world cells and that also made no difference. however game will run fine without dyndolod active. But I have decided to do a fresh install on MO2 and the game an I am following the the modders guide v2.3 to the letter. So far only up to the performace testing steps however the nexus is down....

Only question I did have with the v2.3 guide is it possible to make the CC picker work or dowse it cause issues? 

 

EDIT

Possibly going to look at the community shaders option as it seems to be more performace friendly.  

This is the DynDOLOD support forum. If you require help with DynDOLOD or want to report issues, read https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum which logs, debugs logs etc. to upload when making posts.

If you have questions regarding 3rd party guides, then you need to ask the author of that guide or use its support forum. Same for third party mods.

[MiTxGam3r]

So bit of an update. When I last tried dyndolod I had lots of issue with the world map being laggy. Id get one or two fast travels then ILS or crash at load screen but not to desktop. As mentioned last I was having issues with just running vanilla game no mods. THis time I have followd the step guid 2.3 to the letter. mini map is more responsive lot less issues there however Im still getting ILS after a few aft travels.