Requiem or YASH - What are the differences?

[ShadowNirvana]

Hi there. As there are two great guides here that implement YASH and Requiem. I've been trying to find the differences between them, but there aren't really that much that I can find. 

 

-YASH apparently puts more importance to "skill", while Requiem is more "perk" based. (Which, imo, is good for balance as NPCs don't use perks)

-Requiem changes weapon stats completely, while YASH lets them stay vanilla

-Requiem adds new weaponry and ammo (like silver arrows and bolts), YASH doesn't (which is such a torture for me because silver arrows are such a good idea, I wish YASH or vanilla game had these too)

-Requiem changes the economy and adds scarcity, YASH doesn't do much for the economy.

 

Any additions and or corrections?

[Tiranasta]

(Which, imo, is good for balance as NPCs don't use perks)

 

They do in Requiem, if I recall correctly.

[ShadowNirvana]

Another question would be the difference between guides - for people who have played both, do you like the Reqtified guide or YASH guide? There seem to be a couple differences such as complete crafting overhaul etc.

[Michi]

I have played quite a bit of Requiem and played YASH to about level 40. The overhauls are very different. 

 

Requiem makes skill growth important only inasmuch as it unlocks perks. Perks are everything.

Requiem also makes some pretty huge changes to many mechanics in the game.

 

YASH is all about skills, with skills causing huge scaling of damage and protection and effect, with perks supplementing skills. YASH changes some mechanics, but much lighter than Requiem.

 

In theory, I prefer the YASH philosophy. In practice, however, I find YASH borderline unplayable. The two areas where YASH is utterly broken is with magic and lockpicking/looting.

 

I will deal with the simpler issue first - lockpicking. YASH requires lockpick perks to be able to pick a lock. So, there you are in your first dungeon with an Adept or Expert level lock - move on. Requiem does this as well, but it can be turned off in the MCM menu, In YASH, its hardcoded. In order for this feature to work, the mod would need to go and relevel all the locks in the game to be aligned with the dungoun type. Bandit dungeouns should have all novice/apprentice, Drauger/Dwemer could start introducing adept/Expert and only a few Daedric quests should have master locks.

 

Magic, however, is where YASH is just broken. He created a "fizzle" concept, where a spell can fail if the skill is below 70 (or is it 75?) Spell failure can also cause the caster to lose the Magicka needed for the spell. This basically makes magic useless, since its totally unreliable, and thus youc an't really gain skill in it, without doing something silly (which is what all the forum posts I have seen suggest) ... what is silly? Silly is finding mudcrabs, and then climbing on a rock so they can hit you and recasting bound sword, Oakflesh, and whatever low level illsuion spell until you get close to 70. Also, step off the rock, get hit, climb back on and heal yourself until restoration gets to a reasonable level. For destruction you are screwed. 

 

By the time you have done all that you have level up a bunch of times and have great amounts of health, stamina, magicka and per points and are completely overpowered to the bandits you will go fight to start leveling weapon/armor skills.

 

I really can't recommend YASH at this stage of its evolution. It needs a lot more work.

[Velgath]

He created a "fizzle" concept, where a spell can fail if the skill is below 70 (or is it 75?)

I haven't used the mod myself, but according to the mod's description, it's the spell's level. So if it's an Apprentice spell, you need 25 skill points to completely avoid fizzling, if it's an Adept spell, you need 50 skill points to completely avoid fizzling, etc.

 

Also, you'll either love or hate this one: you will often fail at casting spells until you reach the minimum skill requirement [this applies to NPC as well].

Edited January 7, 2017 by Velgath

[Michi]

I haven't used the mod myself, but according to the mod's description, it's the spell's level. So if it's an Apprentice spell, you need 25 skill points to completely avoid fizzling, if it's an Adept spell, you need 50 skill points to completely avoid fizzling, etc.

Incorrect. Here is the relevant code snippet:

Bool SpellFail = false
	spell LeftHandSpell = PlayerREF.GetEquippedSpell(0)
	spell RightHandSpell = PlayerREF.GetEquippedSpell(1)
	if akSource == PlayerREF as objectreference && asEventName == "BeginCastLeft" && LeftHandSpell as Bool
		String LeftSkill = LeftHandSpell.GetNthEffectMagicEffect(0).GetAssociatedSkill()
		if LeftSkill == "Alteration" || LeftSkill == "Conjuration" || LeftSkill == "Destruction" || LeftSkill == "Illusion" || LeftSkill == "Restoration"
			Float RandomLeft = utility.RandomFloat(1.00000, 100.000)
			Float LeftFailChance = RandomLeft - PlayerREF.GetBaseActorValue(LeftSkill)
			if LeftFailChance > 30 as Float
				if LeftHandSpell.getEffectiveMagickaCost(PlayerREF) > 0
					Float randomwait = utility.RandomFloat(0.000000, 1.00000)
					utility.Wait(randomwait)
					PlayerREF.InterruptCast()
					SpellFail = true
				endIf
			endIf
		endIf
	endIf

It just looks at the spell and relevant skill. I could actually tolerate the fizzle concept if it allowed for casting spells at 100% success if you had the relevant perk. 

 

I would also have liked to have seen a situation where some races get a bonus against fizzle, like Altmer and Bretons, and some races have an even higher rate of failure, like Orcs and Nords.

[RonHiler]

 

I will deal with the simpler issue first - lockpicking. YASH requires lockpick perks to be able to pick a lock. So, there you are in your first dungeon with an Adept or Expert level lock - move on. Requiem does this as well, but it can be turned off in the MCM menu, In YASH, its hardcoded.

 

This bit right here would make YASH a non-starter for me (which is too bad, I wanted to mod SSE with YASH once that became viable to do). If it's in Requiem I will be turning that feature off.

 

I don't like mods that tell me how to play like this. Make it more difficult? Sure, I'm on board, if I have to go through a dozen lock picks to open a chest, then fine, that seems fair enough, if it's properly balanced to the difficulty of the chest and my skill in lockpicking. Make it impossible just because I don't have "Perk X"? No.

[Velgath]

Incorrect. Here is the relevant code snippet:

<code>

It just looks at the spell and relevant skill. I could actually tolerate the fizzle concept if it allowed for casting spells at 100% success if you had the relevant perk. 

 

I would also have liked to have seen a situation where some races get a bonus against fizzle, like Altmer and Bretons, and some races have an even higher rate of failure, like Orcs and Nords.

Fair enough - like I said, I haven't used the mod and the extent of my knowledge was from its description.

 

Yeah, I honestly think the way I assumed it was supposed to function seems much more sensible rather than an arbitrary 70 skill required to avoid spell-failure. If you are an Adept (50 skill), it stands to reason you should be able to flawlessly cast Adept ranked spells. Seems like an oversight for a mod that emphasizes skills so much.

 

Just on another note - personally the lockpicking thing doesn't really bother me - I've always been fine with the idea of "you lack the skill to do/access this now, so come back later if you still want it".

[twiztedmongoloid]

Requiem is a complete overhaul and touches almost every aspect of the game.

 

YASH is smaller and less harsh and also doesnt have has many compatibility issues.

 

I prefer Requiem because IMO its the ultimate overhaul for skyrim and makes it a totally different game. NPC's have the perks and spells as well. Bosses in Requiem are no joke. Read the manual for a better understanding of what requiem does. There are also many YouTube videos of lets plays with requiem and an entire skyrim reddit full of dedicated requiem players.

This bit right here would make YASH a non-starter for me (which is too bad, I wanted to mod SSE with YASH once that became viable to do). If it's in Requiem I will be turning that feature off.

 

I don't like mods that tell me how to play like this. Make it more difficult? Sure, I'm on board, if I have to go through a dozen lock picks to open a chest, then fine, that seems fair enough, if it's properly balanced to the difficulty of the chest and my skill in lockpicking. Make it impossible just because I don't have "Perk X"? No.

Requiem does have that feature but it can be turned off in the MCM. You can also bash locks open in Requiem. 

 

Think of it like this.....perk equals training and skill. If i asked you in real life to a complex task you had zero training or experience in chances are you wouldnt be able to do it.....so why should you be able to pick a lock with no skill or training in the game???

 

Not every character is a theif and has theif skills. In Requiem perks are everything. There are other ways to open chests tho if missing loot drives you nuts. You can bash them open. OR use the animate lockpick spell. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by twiztedmongoloid

[twiztedmongoloid]

They do in Requiem, if I recall correctly.

Yep. In requiem spells, perks, and ability's are distributed to npcs as well. 

I have played quite a bit of Requiem and played YASH to about level 40. The overhauls are very different. 

 

Requiem makes skill growth important only inasmuch as it unlocks perks. Perks are everything.

Requiem also makes some pretty huge changes to many mechanics in the game.

 

YASH is all about skills, with skills causing huge scaling of damage and protection and effect, with perks supplementing skills. YASH changes some mechanics, but much lighter than Requiem.

 

In theory, I prefer the YASH philosophy. In practice, however, I find YASH borderline unplayable. The two areas where YASH is utterly broken is with magic and lockpicking/looting.

 

I will deal with the simpler issue first - lockpicking. YASH requires lockpick perks to be able to pick a lock. So, there you are in your first dungeon with an Adept or Expert level lock - move on. Requiem does this as well, but it can be turned off in the MCM menu, In YASH, its hardcoded. In order for this feature to work, the mod would need to go and relevel all the locks in the game to be aligned with the dungoun type. Bandit dungeouns should have all novice/apprentice, Drauger/Dwemer could start introducing adept/Expert and only a few Daedric quests should have master locks.

 

Magic, however, is where YASH is just broken. He created a "fizzle" concept, where a spell can fail if the skill is below 70 (or is it 75?) Spell failure can also cause the caster to lose the Magicka needed for the spell. This basically makes magic useless, since its totally unreliable, and thus youc an't really gain skill in it, without doing something silly (which is what all the forum posts I have seen suggest) ... what is silly? Silly is finding mudcrabs, and then climbing on a rock so they can hit you and recasting bound sword, Oakflesh, and whatever low level illsuion spell until you get close to 70. Also, step off the rock, get hit, climb back on and heal yourself until restoration gets to a reasonable level. For destruction you are screwed. 

 

By the time you have done all that you have level up a bunch of times and have great amounts of health, stamina, magicka and per points and are completely overpowered to the bandits you will go fight to start leveling weapon/armor skills.

 

I really can't recommend YASH at this stage of its evolution. It needs a lot more work.

Well said.

 

Requiem is much larger in scale and much more polished. Also has completely different goals tho as well. Requiems start is extremely harsh and is a common complaint for new players. You start as a complete peasant with no skills. Starting as a mage is even harder. Almost everything will kill you in a couple hits. The world no longer revolves around the player. Bleak falls barrow is no longer a starter dungeon.....dragur are mid level enemies and the last room has well.......you will see lol. It is possible to clear it tho at lower levels if you know what your doing. 

 

Bosses in Requiem are epic. Dragons and vampires will mess you up. Mages are high level enemies. Archers are deadly. 

 

Malkoran in the quest dawnbreaker is extremely powerful. Dragon Priests are godly. Basically anyone who is supposed to be strong.....lets just say you better come prepared.

 

Requiem changes waaay more than i could ever hope to cover.

 

I think YASH has a lot of promise tho. More options as far as overhauls go is never a bad thing. At this stage tho it cant touch requiem. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by twiztedmongoloid