I made this post on the Merge Plugins Forum advising a user of a way to manage mods using MO's mod isolation capabilities, it's most advanced application is to manage FoMods for Multiple profiles, especially when those profiles use different options and/or mods that affect many of these types of FoMod choices. A typical example is using different weather mods, my ENB choice give 5 of these:
Vividian ENB - Weather and Lighting - Vivid Weathers - CoT5 - RCRN - Pure Weather - Purity - NLAby Mangaclub and Benhat
Many FoMods also have options for these, and I gave clear examples of how I split these FoMods to enable the multi choice options, to be used. Providing one set of files, for all profiles, whatever options are chosen. See the spoilers in my post.
UhuruNUru wrote: Best viewed on the Forum where the spoilers actually work, acronym's reveale the meaning on mouse over as well.
{EDIT}After years of asking spoilers now are working, but not all the formatting works, acronyms, still shows the BBCode, so advice is unchanged, read this on the forum, where it was written.
[QUESTION] Can anyone tell me why I sometimes have missing textures in-game when I've merged several error-free files?
I use Mod Organizer.
I always run the current version of LOOT to establish the proper load order before I activate Merge Plugins. I use the LOOT order when adding my chosen plugins to the merge.
I always merge the same kind of plugins. 100% Armor of the same body type. 100% Clothing of the same body type, 100% stand-alone NPCs using the same body type. 100% Weapons (firearms and scoped bows in this instance). 100% LD50635's house mods (Skyfall, Frostvale, Dragonstead, etc.).
I never merge a plugin that does not pass the Check Errors step.
I do not use the Ignore Errors function.
However, I sometimes I find that when I activate one of these newly-made merged plugins that some of the textures don't appear in-game. For example, an affected NPC's skin turns light purple. If it's a merged armor or a merged weapon that's affected, then they will turn invisible.
I'm a new Merge Plugins user. All I know is what I've learned by watching the video guide. I'm learning by doing. Most times I'm successful.
It baffles me when a perfectly good mod doesn't work once it's been merged with others of it's ilk.
Please help me with this.
You can try separating the plugins from the files using MO's mod isolation techniques.
It's a similar strategy to installing all of a FoMod's options as separate mods, an advanced technique to preserve SSD space when different Profile specific setups are desired, instead of having to reinstall all the FoMods, you activate the parts as needed.
Here's a FoMod example for AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim (Alt-# are the choose only one - usually these are Bullet style choices)
AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Core Plugins - Alt-1 Skyrim Only AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Core Plugins - Alt-2 Skyrim + Dawnguard AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Core Plugins - Alt-3 Skyrim + Dragonborn AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Core Plugins - Alt-4 Legendary AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Core Assets - Sounds AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 01 CoT Plugin - Alt-1 Skyrim Only AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 01 CoT Plugin - Alt-2 Dawnguard AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 02 RCRN Plugin - Alt-1 Skyrim Only AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 02 RCRN Plugin - Alt-2 Dawnguard AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 03 NLA Plugin - Alt-1 Skyrim Only AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 03 NLA Plugin - Alt-2 Dawnguard AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 03 Pure Weather Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 04 Enhanced Blood Textures Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 05 Fire & Ice Overhaul Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 06 Guard Dialogue Overhaul Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 07 Supreme Storms Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 08 Supreme Storms for CoT Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 09 Realistic Water Two Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 10 SkyRe Plugin - Alt-1 SkyRe Only AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 10 SkyRe Plugin - Alt-2 After ReProc Patch AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 11 Weapons and Armor Fixes - Remade Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 12 Wet and Cold Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 13 Traps are Dangerous Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 14 TaD and F&IO Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 15 Requiem Plugin - Alt-1 v1-7-3 AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 15 Requiem Plugin - Alt-2 v1-8+ AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 16 Deadly Spell Impacts Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 17 Improved Weapon Impact Effects Plugin AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 18 Expanded Skyrim Weather Plugin - Alt-1 Skyrim Only AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 18 Expanded Skyrim Weather Plugin - Alt-2 Dawnguard AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 19 RCRN and ESW Plugin - Alt-1 Skyrim Only AOS - Audio Overhaul for Skyrim - Option - 19 RCRN and ESW Plugin - Alt-2 Dawnguard
This requires separating the plugins from the files, and that can be also done with merging. You merge the plugins only and as the assets are separate mods, use MO's MP system to get thee files how you desire.
It has two great advantages, preserving the mod isolation, which is broken in merging files, and solving any issues that mixing BSA and loose file management systems, I'm not convinced that is dealt with correctly using the merged plugin script.
And the combination of both methods in one, here as well as the Alt-# for choose only one, I use Opt-# for choose any you want, usually these are tick box choices. This allows for nested FoMod's of the most complicated, designs to be separated, and the best part is apart from the separation of plugins, these are simply renamed Folders, that are exactly the same folders the FoMod already is using.
Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-1 Skyrim Water - Alt-1 Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-1 Skyrim Water - Alt-2 RND Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-2 DLC - Opt-1 Legendary - Alt-1 Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-2 DLC - Opt-1 Legendary - Alt-2 RND Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-2 DLC - Opt-2 Dawnguard Water - Alt-1 Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-2 DLC - Opt-2 Dawnguard Water - Alt-2 RND Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-2 DLC - Opt-3 Dragonborn Water - Alt-1 Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-2 DLC - Opt-3 Dragonborn Water - Alt-2 RND Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-2 DLC - Opt-4 Skyrim and Dragonborn Waves Realistic Water Two - Core - Plugin - Alt-2 DLC - Opt-5 Dawnguard Waves Realistic Water Two - Core Assets Realistic Water Two - Optional - Plugin - Opt-1 Wyrmstooth Water Realistic Water Two - Optional - Plugin - Opt-2 Falskaar Water - Alt-1 Realistic Water Two - Optional - Plugin - Opt-2 Falskaar Water - Alt-2 RND Realistic Water Two - Optional - Plugin - Opt-3 Wyrmstooth Waves Realistic Water Two - Optional - Plugin - Opt-4 Falskaar Waves Realistic Water Two - Optional Assets - Opt-1 Textures - Alt-1 Ultra Resolution Realistic Water Two - Optional Assets - Opt-1 Textures - Alt-2 High Resolution Realistic Water Two - Optional Assets - Opt-1 Textures - Alt-3 Medium Resolution Realistic Water Two - Optional Assets - Opt-1 Textures - Alt-4 Low Resolution Realistic Water Two - Optional Assets - Opt-2 Bobbing Longboats Realistic Water Two - Optional Assets - Opt-3 Performance Waterfalls Realistic Water Two - Optional Assets - Opt-4 Extended Ambiance Realistic Water Two - Optional Assets - Opt-4 Static Ice Realistic Water Two - ENB Textures - Alt-1 Ultra Resolution Realistic Water Two - ENB Textures - Alt-2 High Resolution Realistic Water Two - ENB Textures - Alt-3 Medium Resolution Realistic Water Two - ENB Textures - Alt-4 Low Resolution Realistic Water Two - Non-ENB Ultra Resolution Realistic Water Two - Merged
It looks more complicated, but as most FoMod's are already correctly laid out, just rename and make plugin mods separately.
Issues this can help avert are LO and MP mismatching, files merged in one order, plugins a different one, causing mismatches. BSA and Loose files can be mismatched as well, when mixing them up, with the added complications of MO's treat BSA's as loose files mechanic.
Summary First I would suggest making sure LO and MP match up, if you want to take the further step of only merging plugins and letting MO Manage the files in the usual way, preserving the Mod Isolation if you want different choices for other profiles, you have that choice.
MO's Mod Isolation system is circumvented by merging the files, and I see no actual benefits to doing that, so why merge the files at all. Obviously in some way the Merge has kept the wrong textures, and because they are merged files, it can't be fixed without redoing the merge I see no reason for Merging the files and/or BSA's with the plugins, so I make them a separate mod, and preserve the value of having all the assets available. With this method you can change the MP with the usual drag and drop ease.
The main thing I'd add is to do the isolation after merging the plugins, not before, as merging may need to copy certain file-specific assets which requires the plugin to be in the same folder as the mod asset files. In this case you just want to make certain you uncheck the "Copy General Assets" option from the Integrations tab of the Options window.
Now the FoMod methology is the most complex implimentation, but the separation of Plugin(s), from assets can be applied to ordinary mods for plugin only merging in MO.
I have considered Mator's response, and I'm sure he's mistaken, what he says applies to the recommended process, but I never said anything about using the recommended method.
I believe I understand exactly how MO works in my system, but I could be wrong about Merge Plugins functionality, and as I'm advising people, I want the advice to be correct.
Rather than what I think is correct (or Mator), that is much more important than which is right.
THe fact is I'm taking on full responsibility for ordering the assets to match the merging, for easy switching of profiles, where merges may be different, or not used is more important to me than ease of any particular process.
My principle is to do the work required to in advance, so that when I change the profile, it is immediatly ready to go.
Instead of either reinstalling all the Fomods, or having profile specific installs for each one, I simply activate the choices I desire, once for each profile, due to this each play ready at once, no matter how different the choices made.
My SSD thanks me, with freed up Gigabytes of space. The same basic principle is applied to the merged plugins when an included plugin isn't used, another merge already exists, or the individual plugins can simply be activated.
Mator's recommended methods work fine for one profile, or if the same choices are made for all profiles, but I prefer the flexibilty of keeping the mods pristine and ready to use.
So now that long explanation is over, lets get to the simplicity of the method I use, to merge mods.
Merge Plugins Method used
Merge Plugins is used, as if Mod Organizer didn't exist, I ignore Mator's instructions, as far as his tool is concerned (All 3rd party tools in MO), it is the Skyrim Data Folder, it's merging the plugins in.
Given that fact, I use the basic system, exactly like the Manual and/or Wrye Bash user would, all I want merging is the plugins, just like they do.
What happens in MO's mods folder, is under my control, and I take full responsibilty for getting things correct in MO, Merge Plugins has one job, merging the plugins, nothing more.
This makes his response, irrelevant, MO mod management isn't part of the merging process I use, and I don't need to uncheck the "Copy General Assets" option, because I never check the I'm using MO one, thn auto checks it.
I don't tell Merge Plugins what I'm using, because it doesn't need to know that, all it needs to do is Merge Plugins within the games Data folder. Mo and I manage what's in MO's Mods folder, so it doesn't need to even see it.
MOMA (Mod Organizer Manged Archives)
We need a name or acronym for this, I know of none for this system, so offer this feeble effort
How I use MO's BSA options, I go with full MOMA. I never considered BSA extraction as viable or even desirable for Skyrim, using MO.
It still surprises me that the WB supporters pick on that, as it's used by WB users much more than MO, indeed getting STEP to kick that bad habit, brought from WB use, was the main problem I saw
MOMA gave me the best of both worlds, BSA size on my SSD, with Loose files management of assets, I never so any need to extract anything, much as STEP now does, if a specific file inside the BSA needs changing, I extract the file, but still use the BSA.
I honestly don't know why BSA extraction, or built in LOOT even exist in MO.
Tannin always said, something like, "MO should use 3rd party tools, when available, if they can do a better job". My memory puts the phrase, "MO won't reinvent the wheel", in my head, but memory always lies, it's unreliable as source material.
Full LOOT sorts better, due to the UI and user editing feature, MO lacks. BSA extraction, I'm not as clear on, BSAOpt for extraction and BGS's Archive.exe to remake them?
Summary
I can't see anything I'm missing, or know of anything that changes the situation, but as I said at the start, it's getting this right that's important, if I'm telling people I'm right, and Mator's wrong, I need to be sure it's correct.
If Mator's right, and I'm the one whose got it wrong, I need to understand why, so what is correct is more important, than who said it.
Feedback is appreciated, and though explaining my methology is not so easy, using the methods described, is much simpler, than explaining them.
Question
Uhuru
I made this post on the Merge Plugins Forum advising a user of a way to manage mods using MO's mod isolation capabilities, it's most advanced application is to manage FoMods for Multiple profiles, especially when those profiles use different options and/or mods that affect many of these types of FoMod choices. A typical example is using different weather mods, my ENB choice give 5 of these:
Vividian ENB - Weather and Lighting - Vivid Weathers - CoT5 - RCRN - Pure Weather - Purity - NLA by Mangaclub and Benhat
Many FoMods also have options for these, and I gave clear examples of how I split these FoMods to enable the multi choice options, to be used. Providing one set of files, for all profiles, whatever options are chosen. See the spoilers in my post.
Now the FoMod methology is the most complex implimentation, but the separation of Plugin(s), from assets can be applied to ordinary mods for plugin only merging in MO.
I have considered Mator's response, and I'm sure he's mistaken, what he says applies to the recommended process, but I never said anything about using the recommended method.
I believe I understand exactly how MO works in my system, but I could be wrong about Merge Plugins functionality, and as I'm advising people, I want the advice to be correct.
Rather than what I think is correct (or Mator), that is much more important than which is right.
THe fact is I'm taking on full responsibility for ordering the assets to match the merging, for easy switching of profiles, where merges may be different, or not used is more important to me than ease of any particular process.
My principle is to do the work required to in advance, so that when I change the profile, it is immediatly ready to go.
Instead of either reinstalling all the Fomods, or having profile specific installs for each one, I simply activate the choices I desire, once for each profile, due to this each play ready at once, no matter how different the choices made.
My SSD thanks me, with freed up Gigabytes of space. The same basic principle is applied to the merged plugins when an included plugin isn't used, another merge already exists, or the individual plugins can simply be activated.
Mator's recommended methods work fine for one profile, or if the same choices are made for all profiles, but I prefer the flexibilty of keeping the mods pristine and ready to use.
So now that long explanation is over, lets get to the simplicity of the method I use, to merge mods.
Merge Plugins Method used
Merge Plugins is used, as if Mod Organizer didn't exist, I ignore Mator's instructions, as far as his tool is concerned (All 3rd party tools in MO), it is the Skyrim Data Folder, it's merging the plugins in.
Given that fact, I use the basic system, exactly like the Manual and/or Wrye Bash user would, all I want merging is the plugins, just like they do.
What happens in MO's mods folder, is under my control, and I take full responsibilty for getting things correct in MO, Merge Plugins has one job, merging the plugins, nothing more.
This makes his response, irrelevant, MO mod management isn't part of the merging process I use, and I don't need to uncheck the "Copy General Assets" option, because I never check the I'm using MO one, thn auto checks it.
I don't tell Merge Plugins what I'm using, because it doesn't need to know that, all it needs to do is Merge Plugins within the games Data folder. Mo and I manage what's in MO's Mods folder, so it doesn't need to even see it.
MOMA (Mod Organizer Manged Archives)
We need a name or acronym for this, I know of none for this system, so offer this feeble effort
How I use MO's BSA options, I go with full MOMA. I never considered BSA extraction as viable or even desirable for Skyrim, using MO.
It still surprises me that the WB supporters pick on that, as it's used by WB users much more than MO, indeed getting STEP to kick that bad habit, brought from WB use, was the main problem I saw
MOMA gave me the best of both worlds, BSA size on my SSD, with Loose files management of assets, I never so any need to extract anything, much as STEP now does, if a specific file inside the BSA needs changing, I extract the file, but still use the BSA.
I honestly don't know why BSA extraction, or built in LOOT even exist in MO.
Tannin always said, something like, "MO should use 3rd party tools, when available, if they can do a better job". My memory puts the phrase, "MO won't reinvent the wheel", in my head, but memory always lies, it's unreliable as source material.
Full LOOT sorts better, due to the UI and user editing feature, MO lacks. BSA extraction, I'm not as clear on, BSAOpt for extraction and BGS's Archive.exe to remake them?
Summary
I can't see anything I'm missing, or know of anything that changes the situation, but as I said at the start, it's getting this right that's important, if I'm telling people I'm right, and Mator's wrong, I need to be sure it's correct.
If Mator's right, and I'm the one whose got it wrong, I need to understand why, so what is correct is more important, than who said it.
Feedback is appreciated, and though explaining my methology is not so easy, using the methods described, is much simpler, than explaining them.
Edited by UhuruLink to comment
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