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That I hope aswell, or that I have some magical idea that helps me to workaround these problems. :P I mean, both OBSE's + TES4LODGen's problems can be worked out under MO, even if it is a bit more complicated, so there should be something that could be done about TES4LL/MPGUI aswell. *fingers crossed* I filled a new issue on Tannin's bug tracking site: #813

Thanks for the explanation. 53 fps average are generally good, but outside of cities that doesn't help much either, as they don't "feel" that good. With RAEVWD activated I get massive fps drops nonetheless, even if they are short .. and that's noticeable. I often find that more disturbing than, for example, having "only" 40 fps stable all the time. Regarding Streamline .. haven't tested it yet, but I downloaded it and read the readme. I really doubt that it will help, as for one, I don't want it to reduce the visuals .. I only would be interested in the Streampurge function, which is than again "only" an automated pcb (PurgeCellBuffers) console-command; if I understand it correctly. And that doesn't help me with my problem the slighest, as the problem is not over time overflowing cell buffers - with RAEVWD the fps drops are happening right from the start. ENBosst though .. that I will definitely test. It can do some great things for Skyrim, same should be true for Oblivion.

I am currently trying to use TES4LL and/or MPGUI with MO, but unfortunately I run into a bunch of problems. The main problems I see so far, are: - tes4ll_ultimate.bat does not create any meshes, only three empty folders - the process of creating meshes with MPGUI crashes Nexus user malonn also is currently trying to get those tools to work with Mod Organizer, but as it seems he has the exact same problems as I do. I will now write a complete report on what I have found out until now, how I do things and where my problems are. I hope, that either Tannin or gruftikus, or the STEP community could help me out here. ======================================================= First, in order to mod Oblivion, I searched around what I would need to do, how to do it and in particular, in which order. I come to the conclusion, that all necessary things should be done in this order: - Sorting out mods I want to use (downloading & activating) - Sorting the Loadorder via LOOT -- Consider running Land Magic - Run TES4ll - generating distant meshes for terrain - Run TES4qLod (from within TES4ll) - generating textures for distant land meshes - Run TES4ll_normalmaps - Create the Bashed Patch with Wrye Bash - Run TES4LODGen.exe (renamed TES5Edit.exe) - generating .lod files based on distant objects provided by mods and low poly distant object meshes ( _far.nif ) Instead of running the individual batch files of TES4ll one could also use MPGUI - Multi Purpose GUI. But first, I tried to run TES4ll just by itself. So I downloaded it and extracted the content of the .7z archive into the following folder: ..\Steam\SteamApps\common\Oblivion\Data\.. I then opened MO and added tes4ll_ultimate.bat with the arguments -f "...,makemeshes,..." as an executable: Image 1 When I now run "tes4ll_ultimate.bat" through MO, a dos window opens and the following happens: Image 2 At the end there is the line: "Please close this window." So one would think that everything is done. I press enter and close that window. But, back in MO: Image 3 Besides the three folders, no meshes have been created. So, after that wasn't as successfull as I had hoped, I downloaded MPGUI. I installed MPGUI outside of my Oblivion folder: C:\Spiele\Modding\0_Programme\MPGUI Spiele = Games I then added MPGUI in MO as a new executable file: Image 4 If I run it through MO I see this: Image 5 File --> Open Batch... --> select "tes4ll_all.mpb" in: C:\Spiele\Steam\SteamApps\common\Oblivion\Data\Ini\tes4ll Once the .mpb file is opened .. and I have selected Oblivion under "Options - Game Mode - Oblivion" .. MPGUI looks like this: Image 6 Now I can see, that basically none of my plugins are recognized by mpgui: Image 7 .. and therefore I can't select any worldspaces in the next tab. If I rescan my plugins, and switch back to the first tab, I see that two new lines were added: 19 [Info] Reading esp/esm files from 'C:\Spiele\Modding\0_Programme\Mod_Organizer_Oblivion\mods\Bashed Patch' 20 [Info] Plugins.txt path is: 'C:\Users\NAME\AppData\Local\Oblivion\plugins.txt'Line 19 - MPGUI falsely scans my "Bashed Patch" mods folder inside MO .. that's why it can't find any plugins.Line 20 - The wrong plugins.txt is selected by MPGUI .. it should be the one in MO's folder: C:\Spiele\Modding\0_Programme\Mod_Organizer_Oblivion\profiles\Default\plugins.txt So here is my first conclusion .. the Bashed Patch must be deactivated within MO's mod list/left pane/installation order. Image 8 Once I deactivated the Bashed Patch and run MPGUI once again, selected the "tes4ll_all.mpb" and the game mode Oblivion, I now could see this in the Plugins tab: Image 9 I then selected all plugins, read the worldspace in the next tab, left everything else at it's default settings and switched over to the "Start Process" tab, where I clicked "Click me if you are ready". Result: the tes4ll.exe crashes: Image 10 After a bit of head-scratching I opened up the "mpgui_autoload.mpb" file with Notepad++, found in: C:\Spiele\Modding\0_Programme\MPGUI\mpgui_autoload.mpb Original: ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; [_Autoload] ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; LogFile -value="$_workdir\mpgui.log" ## 1, 3, 4 reserved for Morrowind, Fallout 3 and FalloutNV AddGame -n=2 -name=Oblivion SetGamePluginFile -n=2 -value="$_appdata\Oblivion\plugins.txt" SetGameSearchPattern -n=2 -value="oblivion" SetGameStdWorldspace -n=2 -value="Tamriel" AddGame -n=3 -name=Fallout3 SetGamePluginFile -n=3 -value="$_appdata\Fallout3\plugins.txt" SetGameSearchPattern -n=3 -value="Fallout 3" SetGameStdWorldspace -n=3 -value="Wasteland" AddGame -n=5 -name=Skyrim SetGamePluginFile -n=5 -value="$_appdata\Skyrim\plugins.txt" SetGameSearchPattern -n=5 -value="skyrim" SetGameStdWorldspace -n=5 -value="Tamriel" ;SetPath -value="$_workdir\ini\mpgui\" ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; GUIConsoleEcho -text="Autoload batch file loaded" ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;.. and changed a few things and also added two new lines: ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; [_Autoload] ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; LogFile -value="$_workdirmpgui.log" ## 1, 3, 4 reserved for Morrowind, Fallout 3 and FalloutNV AddGame -n=2 -name=Oblivion SetGamePluginFile -n=2 -value="C:\Spiele\Modding\0_Programme\Mod_Organizer_Oblivion\profiles\Default\plugins.txt" SetGameSearchPattern -n=2 -value="oblivion" SetGameStdWorldspace -n=2 -value="Tamriel" GameMode -name=Oblivion SetPath -value=C:\Spiele\Steam\SteamApps\common\Oblivion\Data\Ini\tes4ll\tes4ll_all.mpb ;AddGame -n=3 -name=Fallout3 ;SetGamePluginFile -n=3 -value="$_appdata\Fallout3\plugins.txt" ;SetGameSearchPattern -n=3 -value="Fallout 3" ;SetGameStdWorldspace -n=3 -value="Wasteland" ;AddGame -n=5 -name=Skyrim ;SetGamePluginFile -n=5 -value="$_appdata\Skyrim\plugins.txt" ;SetGameSearchPattern -n=5 -value="skyrim" ;SetGameStdWorldspace -n=5 -value="Tamriel" ;SetPath -value="$_workdir\ini\mpgui" ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; GUIConsoleEcho -text="Autoload batch file loaded" ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;Now, when I open MPGUI and click on "File --> Open Batch...", I can directly select the batch file "tes4ll_all.mpb", without the need to manually navigate to the correct folder. Once the file is selected, the Game Mode "Oblivion" is set automatically .. and Fallout3 and Skyrim are commented out within the code above, hence do not showup as alternatives within MPGUI. But now comes my actual problem. If I now activate all plugins, read the worldspaces and want to "start the process" .. the "tes4ll.exe" still crashes. .. hence, I currently am not able to create any meshes through neither TES4ll, nor MPGUI. And here I hope that someone could help me .. is there something I could do?

There is an easy fix for this "running out of memory" issue, if TES4LODGen.exe is used through MO 1.2.11 (no real need to wait for MO 1.3.0). - Get the latest version of xEdit here (as or writing this post it's version 3.0.33 svn1808) - Rename TES5Edit.exe to TES4LODGen.exe - Add TES4LODGen.exe as an executable in MO 1.2.11 - Define a new output folder, that is not within MO's original folder The last point can be achieved through using the following argument: -O:More Information So, if you add the argument "-O:C:\Games\Generated_DistantLOD" (without "") .. all the new .lod files will be generated there. If you did install RAEVWD and run TES4LODGen.exe this way through MO afterwards, the approximately 10000 files will be generated in less than 30 seconds. Add those newly created .lod files as a new mod in MO .. and you're done.

I did another test and changed uGridDistantCount=25 to uGridDistantCount=15 aswell (nothing else was changed). Result: The average fps rate is now 53, so better than 43 but still not 59 like before RAEVWD was installed. Haven't tested Streamline/ENBoost yet .. I do that once I have the time to do so. What "sound thing" are you refering to?

I did some testing. With the setup from above I get the following results (I used SPM, it works with Oblivion aswell): After installing Really AEVWD and running TES4LODGen.exe (based on xEdit 3.0.33 svn1808), i get these results: I gotta say, I wouldn't have thought, how MUCH of an impact that mod is. Oblivion really seems to be engine-limited. I mean neigher my GPU nor my CPU are maxed out (far from it), my vram isn't maxed out aswell .. and yet, my average fps drops from 59 to 43 .. the framerate drops are pretty aweful at times, if you are outside of cities. True, I installed everything from RAEVWD, that might be to much overkill for this engine. Can you suggest anything to disable, hishutup, something where the win/loss ratio is low? Regarding MoreHeap .. skyranger-1 said here this (he is refering to MoreHeap): And when this was brought to shademe's attention, he wrote this: I see in the comments of both pages that some say, that OSR overwrites the changes MoreHeap does .. but truth be told, if both authors say that it can be beneficial to use both mods then I am gonna use both mods. I would like to see hard evidence that MH doesn't help the slightest if I should remove it .. otherwise, like said .. I trust the authors comments regarding this. That said. RAEVWD really does hit the Oblivion engine hard, and OSR+MoreHeap+4GB Patch cannot prevent fps drops. I'm gonna add Streamline and/or ENBoost to that list to check whether or not those will make a difference .. if not, then I will either uninstall RAEVWD partially .. or completely. Will see about that.

Thank you for your help! I have uninstalled Fast Exit and installed Oblivion Stutter Remover, and as you said it works, no more crash on exit with OSR aswell. I will use MO as main mod manager, WB for Bashed Patches and TMM for .omod's. OBSE plugins will be installed directly into Oblivions ..SteamSteamAppscommonOblivionDataobseplugins.. folder, so they will not be managed via MO. I now have installed the following mods: - Oblivion Stutter Remover - MoreHeap - 4GB Patch - Unofficial Oblivion Patch - Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch - Unofficial Official Mods Patch - OBSE -Elys- Universal Silent Voice - Blockhead - Oblivion Character Overhaul 2 - Qarls TP3 for NMM (+UOP-QTP3 Patch) - Underworld armor So far everything seems to work, the textures seem to be applied correctly (Archive Invalidation is activated through MO) .. see these screenshots regarding QTP3: before - after I am also aware of these three mods: - CTD and Memory patch ENBoost - Memory purger - extended - Streamline but for the moment I will "only" rely on OSR, MoreHeap and the 4GB Patch. As long as I don't run into any stutters or frame rate drops those three should be enough.

Okay, after reading your comments and Tes4Mod:Bash vs. OBMM (I'm also currently reading STEP Guide:Wrye Bash, not yet finished though), I see that .omod's can't be installed directly through BAIN. In case to make this work .omod's need to be repackaged into BAIN-friendly archives .. the question would be, how much work would that be and .. would it be worth it over an alternative like OBMM & Co. Regarding OBMM, okay let me list a few things, to get this right. - Oblivion mod manager - OBMM by Timeslip - Oblivion Mod Manager Extended by Scent Tree - obmm extended with Skyrim support by monpetitbeurre - TesModManager - OblivionModManager for Skyrim - Oblivion and Morrowind by monpetitbeurre So indeed, TesModManager seems to be the most recent mod manager of these four, making the previous three - including the original OBMM - obsolete. Oblivion Stutter Remover includes Fast Exit 2? Where do you see that? I do not see any information regarding this, so I would've thought that I should use both alongside each other.

I am in the process of starting to mod Oblivion aswell, and I want to use MO for it. Cleaned the official DLC plugins, and thanks to GSDFan I already could successfully setup OBSE .. Fast Exit 2 is working great (as advised I put this OBSE plugin directly into Oblivions Data folder). What I would like to know .. instead of OBMM, couldn't I use Wrye Bash's BAIN to install .omod's aswell? As far as I have understood it, that should be possible (haven't used BAIN before, OBMM neither) .. and seeing as I need to use WB for the Bashed Patch anyway I kind of wonder why I still should use OBMM; why use three mod manager if I can use only two? Is there any advantage of OBMM over WB that I don't see, or a feature that only OBMM has?

23 days have passed since I made the first three testruns with Skyrim Performance Monitor, since then the following changes have been made: Updated SPM from v3.53 to v3.6Updated LOOT 0.5.0 to 0.6.0 RC1Updated MO to v1.2.9 and rearranged the install order like thisUpdated the following mods to their latest versions: iNeed, Run For Your Lives, iHUD, RaceMenu, Skyrim Immersive Creatures, Complete Crafting Overhaul Remade, Weapons and Armor Fixes Remade, Heljarchen Farm, Sofia, Unique Uniques (all mods are up2date)Remade Bashed Patch, Run the ReProccerMy current loadorder: Pastebin 1 My current (active) modlist: Pastebin 2 Test d - Cart Ride - Normal Vanilla Textures - No ENBoost Image 5 Test e - Cart Ride - Optimized Vanilla Textures - No ENBoost Image 6 On this heavily modded setup I can now see a significant change through optimizing the vanilla textures! First you can see, that in Test d at the end of the cart ride the VRAM is nearly maxed out... in Test e this looks better, the amount of VRAM was lowered. Looking at the numbers I come to the following results. Through optimizing the textures, ... the average Memory decreased from 1417 MB to 1355 MB, resulting in a difference of -62 MB, or -4,375 %the maximum Memory decreased from 1799 MB to 1608 MB, resulting in a difference of -191 MB, or -10,617 %the average VRAM decreased from 940 MB to 910 MB, resulting in a difference of -30 MB, or -3,191 %the maximum VRAM decreased from 1274 MB to 1206 MB, resulting in a difference of -68 MB, or -5,338 %the average FPS increased from 52 fps to 53 fps, resulting in a difference of +1 fps, or +1,923 %the maximum FPS was the same (60 fps)Looks great.

Excellent. And I don't use Distant Decal Fix, but thank you nonetheless! I will post my results once I'm through with testing.

Thanks for the explanation. I will use the cart ride in my next testruns, which I will have done in a few days. So I have updated to MO 1.2.5 now and interlaced the Patches and Optimized Textures between the DLCs like this: - Vanilla Optimized - USKP - Dawnguard - Dawnguard Optimized - UDGP - HearthFires - Hearthfire Optimized - UHFP - Dragonborn - Dragonborn Optimized - UDBP - HighResTexturePack01 - HRDLC1 Optimized - HighResTexturePack02 - HRDLC2 Optimized - HighResTexturePack03 - HRDLC3 Optimized - UHRP Would this be the recommended way, or should I change something? Just want to be absolutely sure about this.

Thank you for the reply regarding my first question. I have read through the thread Ramifications of BSA Extraction in Mod Organizer and understand now what changes the next version of MO will bring. I will interlace the "Optimized Vanilla Texture Mods" between the official DLCs, as you suggested it. If someone could comment on my second and third question I would appreciate it.

Hey there, first post here. I have some previous experience with Optimizer Textures, but as I completely reinstalled Skyrim, switched from NMM to MO (i am using the latest Beta), revampt my modlist & loadorder (using LOOT), cleaned the official master files and certain mod plugins .. I wanted to go the "last" step aswell, and that is to try out DDSopt for certain texture optimization. So as a first step I read through the Chapter about optimizing the vanilla textures in Neovalens Skyrim Revisited Guide and followed it's orders; of course I created a DDSopt.ini and made sure, that DDSopt was initialized correctly .. I only changed one setting, and that was under the Constraints tab the resolution limit, which I set to 2048x2048 (while processing *_n.dds and *_msn.dds of course 1024x1024). Because I have Win7 x64 Ultimate I used DDSopt x64.exe (administrator mode). My left pane in MO currently looks like this: Image 1 1. Question Am I correct, that the optimized vanilla texture "mods" should be placed at the very top of the installation order (left pane)? So I went ahead and made a few tests with Skyrim Performance Monitor. Therefore I always walked the exact same path, first through Whiterun, then in the direction of Markath, and once I reached a certain point I fast travaled to Riften Stables, walked around a bit more .. and then ended the test. To mention is, that I have not optimized any mod plugins textures from other mods as of yet .. that will come later. Test a - Normal Vanilla Textures - No ENBoost Image 2 Test b - Optimized Vanilla Textures - No ENBoost Image 3 Test c - Optimized Vanilla Textures - With ENBoost (ENBoost 5.0, ENBSeries v0254, InjectorVersion) Image 4 Now you will recognize, that first, my VRAM is maxed out in the beginning (inside of Whiterun) and second, that my overall FPS rate could be more stable. Yes, indeed, those are the exact reasons why I am in the need of optimizing textures. Anyway, you will also recognize, that there is really not a great difference between Test a and Test b .. and that brings me to my next question: 2. Question Shouldn't optimizing the vanilla textures free up at least a small amount of ram/vram, so that it actually can be monitored (e.g. through SPM)? I mean, I did not expect that Skyrim runs two times faster, but "no change at all"? My DDSopt .log files actually say that DDSopt did the job it is supposed to do .. see this: Final report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsVanilla Optimized": processed files: 18580 modified textures: 18524 skipped textures: 17 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 3320 changed texture formats: 3531 i/o delta: -170438811 bytes tex delta: -170438811 bytes z delta: -1370665455 bytesFinal report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsDawnguard Optimized": processed files: 3122 modified textures: 3108 skipped textures: 17 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 934 changed texture formats: 936 i/o delta: -41013456 bytes tex delta: -41013456 bytes z delta: -445064752 bytesFinal report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsHearthfire Optimized": processed files: 143 modified textures: 143 skipped textures: 17 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 26 changed texture formats: 29 i/o delta: -1311864 bytes tex delta: -1311864 bytes z delta: -22385928 bytesFinal report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsDragonborn Optimized": processed files: 9241 modified textures: 9238 skipped textures: 17 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 2027 changed texture formats: 2045 i/o delta: -90558674 bytes tex delta: -90558674 bytes z delta: -704946040 bytesFinal report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsHRDLC1 Optimized": processed files: 454 modified textures: 454 skipped textures: 0 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 0 changed texture formats: 0 i/o delta: -809500800 bytes tex delta: -809500800 bytes z delta: -997998771 bytesFinal report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsHRDLC2 Optimized": processed files: 6129 modified textures: 6129 skipped textures: 1 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 2585 changed texture formats: 5176 i/o delta: -1481147384 bytes tex delta: -1481147384 bytes z delta: -1163113780 bytesFinal report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsHRDLC3 Optimized": processed files: 369 modified textures: 369 skipped textures: 1 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 0 changed texture formats: 21 i/o delta: -471160740 bytes tex delta: -471160740 bytes z delta: -667050522 bytesI found that a bit confusing that I couldn't notice a change whatsoever. And that also brings me to my last point. Please look at this: Skyrim - Textures.bsa - 1.29 GB Vanilla Optimized - 2.04 GB Dawnguard.bsa - 1.10 GB Dawnguard Optimized - 385 MB HearthFires.bsa - 133 MB Hearthfire Optimized - 20 MB Dragonborn.bsa - 1.67 GB Dragonborn Optimized - 585 MB HighResTexturePack01.bsa - 1.52 GB HRDLC1 Optimized - 1.76 GB HighResTexturePack02.bsa - 1.74 GB HRDLC2 Optimized - 2.32 GB HighResTexturePack03.bsa - 1.11 GB HRDLC3 Optimized - 1.29 GB 3. Question Do you get the same result in file sizes for the optimized texture "mods"? And why do you think do the file sizes actually increase for Skyrim - Textures.bsa and the 3 HiRes DLCs? Final Note Thanks for reading my little essay here. I would really appreciate it if someone can tell me his opinion on the whole matter. Thanks.