STEP-Based Load Orders and You (T/S And General Questions)

[Shadriss]

So, I'm pretty sure that this has been asked before, but I'm unable to find the relavent threads and posts, so please, bear with me on this one.

 

I've got STEP itself reinstalled. I have a whole host of mods that are not STEP that I want to drop in. From a stability standpoint, I could use some advice on how to integrate the two. To this point, I've basically taken the base format of STEP (Graphics, Landscape, etc) and created a second list that is added on after all the STEP mods (with the exception of all the patches, will would still be loaded at the end of the list). While in general, this worked, I think that this may have caused random CTD, though I have nothing solid to base this on.

 

I am considering integrating these second mods directly into the STEP list, alongside them so to speak, instead of all after. In addition to this, I think I need to learn a tad bit better how to figure out problems in TES5Edit for conflict resolution, and unfortunately the on-line stuffs all read like stereo instructions, and I can't make head or tail of them. Any advice on this subject, or any other I've raised, would be helpful. I'd LOVE to finally have a stable build, instead of one I can only HOPE stays up long enough for me to play for half an hour or so.

[TechAngel85]

For the mods I add on top of STEP, I always integrate them into where they'd fit in the Guide. So if it's a landscape mod, I'd stick it in that section. This is always completed one mod at a time so that I do not miss anything such as files that need to be hidden of conflicts that need to be resolved in xEdit.

 

In xEdit, sorting for conflict losers (via the right-click menu) is a great way to start looking for compatibility issues. Just load up your entire load order in xEdit and apply that filter that Zilav has provided for us. It's the first place I start when looking for critical conflicts between mods. I've actually found a few conflicts between STEP mods that I felt should have been forwarded to the STEP Patches so I did these myself.

[Shadriss]

For the first, thanks, I figured it would be more likely to be that way. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

For the second, I'm not even sure how to identify those 'critical' conflicts, which is part of the problem, and from there even less of an idea how to 'forward the changes'. Like I mentioned, I've seen the instructions, but they are written in Mod-ese, not Bad English (IE, American), so I find myself getting lost in there a bit. No fault to the creators - they know that of which they speak. Me, on the other hand, am an uneducated underinformed end-user with delusions of grandeur, so...

 

THanks for the assist, Tech. As always, you're on top of things.

[TechAngel85]

For the xEdit bit, you can check your load order by:

 

Loading all your plugins. (Just click ok when opened)

Once you get "background loader: finished", right-click on any plugin and click "Apply Filter to show Conflict Losers".

 

This will filter your records to show only the plugins that are losing conflicts to other plugins. Some of these you want and are okay. Some, you don't want and need to "forward" the records into a patch. So take AOS for instance. It's losing some conflicts under Impact from the Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp. This is wanted behavior in STEP, but say you wanted AOS to win those conflicts. To do this you'd simply forward the record into the Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp by clicking on the AOS record in the right-pane and dragging and dropping it to the same record for the other plugin. This will change the Improved Combat ESP to match. However, you don't want to do this unless you'll be using those set of mods for now until you're done with the mods. Normally you'd create a new patch. To do that, you right-click on the AOS record (left-pane this time) you want in AOS to win and select "Copy as override into...". In the box that opens, you'd select "" and click Ok. This opens another box for you to name the new plugin which is your patch. After you've named it, it will show as winning the conflict for that record, which is what you intended for it to do.

 

Knowing what to forward only comes in time and experience.

[Shadriss]

Follow this so far. Thanks much. I'll mess with this and see how badly I screw up SKyrim. At least I won't make dragons fly backwards.

 

I think.

 

Maybe.

 

EDIT: Follow-On question, which may actually be better to post in the 2.9.9.1 threads, but hey, I'm here so... WRT Skymills and DynDOLOD... the Docs for the latter say I can safely turn off the former, as the end result is the same. OK, fair enough. Would having both on possibly create an issue in and around Whiterun? And, as a secondary, why have Skymills if DynDOLOD does the same job at this point?

Edited September 17, 2015 by Shadriss

[Shadriss]

OK, deserving of a seperate post vice an edit.

 

With all mods now in, I got a result that was, to say the least odd. Having done all as I've done before, minus a few mods that I decided weren't worth the effort, I started the game. All was well until Alduin showed up.

 

The town was on fire... except it wasn't. No fire effects were playing. OK, I thought, wierd, but maybe just a small glitch.

Walls showed normal, then swapped to LOD, then back after a few seconds. Ok, Alduin DOES scare me... maybe textures too?

Then I went into Helgen. Apparently, the dragon is so scary that about half the walls just up and left, not even leaving behind a purple texture to show where they should have been. Oh, and also, I was stuck in a walking animation loop (head bobbing endlessly, unable to move or otherwise control the character).

 

On the upside, Alduin was NOT flying backwards, so that's a bonus.

 

Never seen anything like this before... This was simply wow. Next time, I'm taking pics to show you. Because hey... this was awesomely wrong.

 

Thoughts? (Apart from about how odd *I* am... that's a given.)

 

EDIT: Now with PICTURES!

 

https://imgur.com/a/w0eda

 

Shot 1 - Flames missing from brazier near tower, LOD textures on wall near arch.

Shot 2 - Flames missing from burning items.

Shot 3 - Alduin breathes... light? Where's the flame?

Shot 4 - Wall with LOD textures, replaced moments later by...

Shot 5 - LOD as it should be once Alduin shows up to scare them into compliance.

Shot 6 - Uhm... I had to walk through the walls of that house... the ones that shouldn't be there. Same was true of the jump from the tower - had to do it through the walls of the building.

Shot 7 - If I have to tell you what's wrong here, you're blind.

 

Still investigating... help would be good, but I'm checking the entire thing.

 

EDIT 2: Definitely not the STEP mods as a root cause, but DYNDOLOD certainly seems to have at least partial problems here. The LOD stuff is definitely coming from there. Got flames and the rest back in a base STEP Extended lineup. Will keep updating as T/S continues, but any ideas of a possible root cause would be helpful.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Shadriss

[TechAngel85]

Looks like DynDOLOD might have been messed up somehow. You let LOOT sort it? It should be close to the end of the load order. The LOD switch on the wall where Alduin lands is fairly common issue I think. It happens nearly every time for me. The rest is totally messed up. The missing body would not be a LOD issue though. The missing interior floors in an issue I've had inside caves. I was not able to narrow it down. My guess was DynDOLOD since I've never had that issue until this release of STEP, but it seemed like no one else was experiencing it that I asked so I just kept playing on. So far I've only found two locations that was an issue and neither was an interior building space, both were cave spaces.

[Shadriss]

Agree with the LOD stuffs. Most likely something I messed up somewhere, and until I get the other issues fixed, I'm leaving it out.

 

To this point, I'm about halfway into putting back the mods in five at a time and running the same sequence. Had one mod that was certainly causing an issue (unrelated to the graphics to this point), and another that has, apparently, been removed from the Nexus by the author (a script-dragon based auto-perk-stat-level mod... RIP YOU AWESOME MOD YOU!) which I have also removed. Still have 25 or so mods remaining to replace, but apart from those two (and a Random Act of Skyrim) there have been no issues so far.

 

Here's to hoping.

[Greg]

I haven't run into any issues with the caves yet, although I haven't been to all the caves yet. In fact, I haven't been to Solstheim or started the Dawnguard quest line yet, and Delphine and Esbern have been waiting for me to talk to the Graybeards for a couple weeks at least.

 

I have run into issues in two places so far.

 

Smelter Overseer's house in Markarth. This is a two-room house and when I walked in the front door the back room was shrouded in gray and I could see very dim lights at about the spots where the candles are. When I walked into the back room, everything cleared up but the front room is now shrouded in gray. No matter which room I'm in, the other room has a gray curtain. I just ignored it and went on my way since I'll likely never need to go back there.

 

I found a waterfall, a lake, and several lit scones floating in the air right around Volskygge and Deepwood Redoubt. I assumed this must be related to something in my setup, so I haven't really looked into it yet other than snap a few screenshots. I figured I would let the cell reset and go back this weekend to see if it's still there.

[TechAngel85]

One I had issue with was the exiting cave from doing the Diplomatic Immunity (I think) quest. The one where you visit the Thamor Embassy. The other one I can't remember the name of but it was from the quest where Lod's talking dog, Barbas, leads you to the Clavicus Vile. These caves were not just missing textures, they were missing the floor entirely. You could fall through like nothing was there.

[Shadriss]

All mods back in, minus LOD. No issues, which is odd. I haven't tested it all the way out to Whiterun yet, but the original problems I showed no longer exist. Running the LOD now... maybe the game will surprise me. Again.

[Shadriss]

I have no choice but to point fingers at DyndoLOD at this point. All was working properly prior to regenerating LOD and putting it in game. Afterwards, some of the same LOD problems (though these did not show consistently in two runs). The running in place problem upon entering Helgen, however was consistent. I'll keep testing, but initially, there seems to be some odd issue here... not that odd issues related to Helgen are unheard of.

 

EDIT: Pulled LOD out, worked. Put it back in, walk-in-place animation on entering Helgen. I'm not sure what's going on here, honestly. Some odd interaction between mods, probabobly, but I'm at a loss to explain what, since everything I have in now, I had in before. Is it possible that LOD is a mod that, perhaps, shouldn't be activated until after entering Helgen Keep? I've seen at least one other mod with that restriction.

 

At any rate, I've been up too late as it is. I'll look into it more tomorrow (later today) after I get the kids to school.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Shadriss