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ESP load order for perkus maximus


Hi there, I am not sure about something after looking some informatuin here :



When I see this load ESP order, wich is something I never care, because I let LOOT doing it for me, it appears that I have not exactly the same order. For exemple my immersive armor is between perkus master esp and the thief esp, and the perkus mage esp is after the thief and should be before...... have a look here :  https://www.cjoint.com/15fe/EBxpHSN5Dig.htm


So the question is : do I let LOOT take care of this, or should I move some esp sometime ?? 


In fact with 268 mods, my patchus maximus take only 10 minutes to run ( does the SSD affect the speed of the process ?) , and I worries about missing some features when I see that almost of the time it take 1 HOUR to finish !!!!


Thanks for any clues !



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.Git is probably hidden from you by Windows.

Press your Windows Start button and type 'Folder Options' then press ENTER.

A window called 'Folder Options' will display, select the 'View' tab and in the 'Advanced Settings' panel select the 'radio button' to toggle the "Show hidden files, folders, and drives." Hit APPLY and close the window. Navigate to that folder and .Git will be shown. Delete everything in the Skyrim folder except your userlist.yaml.


You can safely reset the hidden files/folders options by retracing these steps and choosing the other 'radio button', "Don't show hidden files, folders, and drives."

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The screenshot you provided is of little help because you have everything sorted by 'Name' and not 'Priority' and nowhere in that shot can I see Immersive Armors.


Instead try posting a link to PasteBin with a copy of both your 'modlist.txt' & 'plugins.txt', both of which are found in the folder of the current profile, in this case: STEP CORE.


If I understand PerMa, and I don't run it or wish to at this stage, the separate modules don't need to loaded if you don't want that aspect of the game changed. ie. if you play a Mage style you don't need to have 'Warrior' or 'Thief' modules loaded. But if you do have them loaded it doesn't matter what order, relevant to each other they are, so long as they come AFTER the PerMa Master plugin.


Since the link to the PerMa Compatibility Patch shows IA needing to be before PerMa, I'd say it is a safe bet that it needs to be BEFORE.

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hello grandsp. In fact in  the photo I take I was trying to do it well : I highlight immersive armor (it is on the top, the name is hottropper44_armorC) and thief module, but it seems not clear :(  and I was thinking the priority number give you the position....whatever I didn't know the tip about the plugins list and modlist, so here they are and thank you for this advice ! Esp's like Isil Narsil, hotrooper44armorcompilation (=immersive armor) may be at a wrong place .... WHY LOOT doesn't give me the right order even after click SORT on MO... ?
[spoiler=esp list]Skyrim.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
Cutting Room Floor.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
Auto Unequip Ammo.esp
Northguard Ranger Armor.esp
DYNAVISION Dynamic Depth of Field.esp
When Vampires Attack.esp
Elemental Staves.esp
Traps Make Noise.esp
Moss Rocks.esp
Moss Rocks_DB.esp
Combat Evolved.esp
Convenient Horses.esp
Character Creation Overhaul.esp
CCO - Oblivion Carry Weights.esp
CCO - Dynamic Skill Progression.esp
CCO - Diverse Races And Genders.esp
Extended UI.esp
Dual Sheath Redux.esp
Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp
ELFX - Dawnguard.esp
ELFX - Dragonborn.esp
Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp
Immersive detection of NPC.esp
Knightranger Archer's Armor.esp
Lock Overhaul.esp
Nausicaa's Tweaker.esp
Footprints - Ash.esp
Soul Gems Differ.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
Bucklers Only.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueOrcish&DaedricWeapons.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
Distant DetailHF.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp
Bring Out Your Dead.esp
Thieves Guild Requirements.esp
Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp
SDO Full-LOD - The Morthal Swamp Light.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
Pre PaMa SiC Patch.esp
Oblivion Gates v3 without Markers - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.esp
SDO Full-LOD - Waterfall Effects.esp
Point The Way.esp
Wintermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp
dD-DG-DB-Immersive Creatures EBT Patch.esp
WetandCold - Ashes.esp
Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
High Level Enemies - SIC.esp
Pre PaMa WAFR CCOR BoYD Patch.esp
PerMa Expansion 1 - Wintermyst.esp
Animated Weapon Enchants.esp
Dead Body Collision.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
SDO Full-LOD - Whiterun Trundra Creeks.esp
CCO - Permanent Birthsigns.esp
SFO - Dragonborn.esp
Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
Potions Restore Over Time and No Spamming.esp
Radiant and Unique Potions Poisons and Booze.esp
Gildergreen Regrown.esp
SDO Full-LOD - Giant Campfires.esp
Imaginator BETA.esp
Evil MasterMind Armor.esp
STEP Extended Patch.esp
Pre PaMa CCF Patch.esp
Pre PaMa WAFR Patch.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Dual Sheath Redux Patch.esp

[spoiler=modlist]+PerMa Extended Perk Descriptions
+Dual Sheath Redux for Perkus Maximus
+PerMa Compatibility and PaMa Patches
+Perma Patch
+FNNIS creatures
+LeanWolf's Better Shaped Weapons - All in One Installer
+Fores New Idles in Skyrim - FNIS
+DSR patch
+Dual Sheath Redux
+Bashed Patch
+STEP - Skyrim Total Enhancement Project
+The Paarthurnax Dilemma
+Combat Evolved
+Perkus Maximus - Maximum Perk Overhaul
+Complete Crafting Overhaul Remade
+The Choice is Yours - Fewer Forced Quests - Improved Dialogue Options
+Non-Essential Children
+Thieves Guild Requirements - No Auto Quest Start Brynjolf
+Traps Make Noise - More Dangerous Traps
+Even Better Quest Objectives
+When Vampires Attack
+Deadly Dragons
+Immersive detection of NPC
+OBIS - Full
+Remove Interior Fog V2
+DYNAVISION - Dynamic Depth of Field
+IMAGINATOR - Visual Control Device for Skyrim
+Wet and Cold - Ashes
+Wet and Cold
+Skyrim -Community- Uncapper
+Wintermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim
+Skyrim Coin Replacer Redux
+SM Drop Lit Torches
+Run For Your Lives
+Oblivion Gates
+Lock Overhaul
+Gildergreen Regrown
+Follower Trap Safety
+Dual Wield Parrying
+Character Creation Overhaul 1_3_2-21587-1-3-2
+Convenient Horses
+Come together N Out of the way - Nausicaa-S Tweaker
+Bring Out Your Dead
+Auto Unequip Ammo
+Lightning during Thunder Storms - Climates of Tamriel - Patch
+Lightning during Thunder Storms
+Climates of Tamriel - Weather Patch
+Project Reality - patch Dwgrd
+Project Reality - patch DB
+Project Reality - Climates Of Tamriel-V3
+Ultra Realistic Bow Shoot Sounds
+Ultra Realistic Crossbow Shoot Sounds
+Thundering shouts
+Smooth blades draw and sheath
+Realistic wolf howls
+Lower Sounding Thieves Guild Door
+Improved Combat Sounds
+Immersive Skyrim Thunder V6
+IHSS - Improved Horse Step Sounds
+Heart of the Beast - Werewolf Sound and Texture Overhaul
+Dragons Shout with Voice
+Audio Overhaul for Skyrim 2
+Better Weapon Swing Sounds
+Better Horse Pain Sounds
+Better Animal Footsteps
+White Phial Replacer
+Sweet Mother - the Night Mother Improvement
+Super Realistic Ore Textures
+Soul Gems Differ
+Skyrim Redesigned
+Silly Level of Detail - Wine Cellar -- SLOD WC
+Silly Level of Detail - Potions and Poisons -- SLOD PnP
+Septim HD
+Ren's HD Shrines by Rengel
+Realistic Instruments - Flute Lute and Drum HQ
+Potions Restore Over Time and No Spamming
+Radiant and Unique Potions and Poisons HD
+Pilgrims Delight - High Hrothgar Shrine Retextures
+Not Really HD Keys
+N-R HD Display Case
+Intricate Spider Webs
+HQ Paper
+HD Sacks Retexture
+HD Ore And Ingots
+HD Linens
+HD Baskets Retex
+Gemling Queen Dragon Claws
+Enhanced HD Dragon Bones 1k v1.6a
+LeanWolf's Improved Enchanter Candle Meshes
+Detailed Rugs
+Dark Brotherhood Tenets Restored - Standard Edition
+Better Shadowmarks
+Better Bones
+The 418th Step
+Skyrim Performance PLUS
+Shooting Stars
+Smaller Ice Spike and Ice Spear
+Running with a bow 3rd person
+NoMaaM Breathing Idles BBB
+Improved Weapon Impact EFFECTS Correct Metal
+Finer Dust
+Enhanced Blood Textures
+Patch SIC and CCO
+High Level Enemies 1.6 SIC Edition
+Dovahkriid - The Dragon Lords
+Skyrim Immersive Creatures
+Enchantment Effect Replacer
+Dual Wield Blocking Animations
+Deadly Spell Impacts
+Dawnguard Rune Weapons FXS Replacer
+Burn Freeze Shock Effects
+Better Turn Animation only One pose
+Animated Weapon Enchants
+Animated Clutter
+Not Really HD Mask of Clavicus Vile
+Nightingale Prime HD
+Ultimate HD Torch
+Greatsword Sheaths and Scabbards Redux
+Skyrim Weapon De-LARP-ification Project
+Gemling Queen Jewelry
+Elemental Staffs
+Closer Quivers and Longer Arrows
+Dawnguard Crossbow Explosive Bolts Visualized
+Better Circlets HQ V1o1
+Staff of Magnus Hotfix
+Bonemold Hotfix
+aMidianBorn stormcloak officer armour
+aMidianBorn imperial light and studded
+aMidianBorn Book of Silence - Creatures
+aMidianBorn Book of Silence - Armors
+aMidianBorn Blade of Woe
+Natural Eyes
+Underwear - Default
+Faces - GeonoxFaces
+XCE - Dawnguard
+XCE - Xenius Character Enhancement
+Dawnguard Rewritten - Arvak
+Superior Lore-Friendly Hair - HD textures
+PondFish and Salmon Replacer - texture
+new children
+More Realistic Hair
+Improved Foot Wraps for females
+Frost Atronach HD Retex
+Female Vampires Have Fangs
+Cover Khajiits
+Birds and Flocks
+Better Freckles
+Better Beast Races v2
+Bellyaches HD Dragon Replacer Pack
+83Willows 101BugsHD Butterfly Dragonfly Luna-Moth Torchbug
+Bellyaches Animal and Creature Pack
+Whiterun Trellis Redesigned and HQ
+Vivid Landscapes - Tundra Moss Revised
+Visible Windows
+The Beauty of Skyrim - Dungeons
+Terrain Bump
+Stalhrim of Skyrim
+Skyrim Improved Puddles - SIP
+Skyrim Distant Detail
+Realistic Water Two
+Re-Defined Dungeons WIP
+Real Wood Textures - Farmhouses
+Real Ice
+Point The Way
+Moss Rocks - Dragonborn DLC Addon
+Moss Rocks
+Lanterns of Skyrim - All In One
+Improved Vanilla Mountains HD
+Hybrids HD Plants and Herbs Retexture
+HQ Snow Texture
+HiRes Legible Road Signs
+High Quality LODs
+Hearthfire Chimneys for Skyrim
+Enhanced Night Skyrim
+Enhanced Distant Terrain
+HD Enhanced Terrain
+Dragon Glyphs HD - Fixed
+Skyrim Flora Overhaul
+aMidianBorn Whiterun
+aMidianBorn Solstheim Landscape
+aMidianBorn Farmhouse
+aMidianBorn Caves and Mines
+A Quality World Map - With Roads
+Enhanced Lights and FX-smim
+Enhanced Lights and FX-DB
+Enhanced Lights and FX-Dgrd
+Enhanced Lights and FX
+Enhanced Distant Terrain 2
+High Quality Food and Ingredients
+Tobes Highres Textures
+HD Misc
+Serious HD Retexture Skyrim
+Static Mesh Improvement Mod
+SkyFalls + SkyMills
+Ultimate HD Fire Effects
+The Skyrim Distance Overhaul Beta (S.D.O.)
+Realistic Smoke and Embers
+Ruins Clutter Improved
+Smaller Cursor
+Extended UI
+Main Menu Spinning Skyrim Emblem
+Main Font Replacement
+Lore-Based Loading Screens
+Lockpicking interface retex
+KenMOD - Time on loading screen
+Immersive HUD - iHUD
+High Quality 3D Map
+Better MessageBox Controls
+Better Dialogue Controls
+XP32 Maximum Skeleton -XPMS
+Immersive Armors
+Bucklers - Shields and Other Armours
+Nordic Ranger Outfit
+Knightranger Archers Armor
+Evil MasterMind Armor
+DreamBurrows Regal Assassin Armor
+Crimson Ranger Armor
+Isilmeriel LOTR Weapons Collection
+Better Bows
+JaySuS Swords
+Cloaks of Skyrim
+Clothing and Clutter Fixes
+Weapons and Armor Fixes Remade
+Trade and Barter
+Skyrim Project Optimization
+SKSE -Elys- AltF4
+Deadly Combat - Deadly Combat 4_01
+Ragdoll Paralysis
+Northguard Ranger Armor
+Improved closefaced helmets
+Guard Dialogue Overhaul
+Fast travel timescale fix
+Dead Body Collision Fix
+Cutting Room Floor
+Consistent Older People
+Potions Animated
+Bowlegged jump animation Fix
+Appropriately Attired Jarls
+Distant Decal Fix
+Stable uGridsToLoad
-TES5EDIT backups
+Unofficial High Resolution Patch
*Unmanaged: HighResTexturePack03
*Unmanaged: HighResTexturePack02
*Unmanaged: HighResTexturePack01
+Unofficial Dragonborn Patch
+Dragonborn ESM clean
*Unmanaged: Dragonborn
+Unofficial Hearthfire Patch
+Hearthfires ESM clean
*Unmanaged: HearthFires
+Unofficial Dawnguard Patch
+Dawnguard ESM-clean
*Unmanaged: Dawnguard
+Unofficial Skyrim Patch
+skse 1 07 02


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Ahh, apologies, I couldn't see the highlighted plugin at the top at first glance.


Now as to why LOOT may be messing up your order, there are a couple of reasons but perhaps the first one is where I'd look.

If you are running one of the later LOOT versions, especially the beta versions of 0.7, you can't also use MO's built in 'Sort' button, doing so will corrupt the masterlist.yaml and create undesired results.

If that is the case, you have installed a later version of LOOT, you will need to go to the %LocalUserData% folder and delete the .Git folder and the masterlist.yaml that are under the \LOOT\Skyrim folder.


MO's version and this new version use a different format and they can't be used together.


Additionally there are, at times, plugins that you will need to assign a correct order by editing the metadata. As mentioned, I don't use PerMa so I'm not sure of the correct positioning.


Regardless of the positions though, the 'correct' place is always determined by an examination either in game or using xEdit, to see if records conflict. I'm sure the Perma forum has a lot to say on where they suggest each module to go.,


Lastly I see you also have Wrye Bash installed so the positioning may be determined by that tool also. It could possibly be that that tool is also messing with your order if it isn't set correctly.


These answers may sound a bit vague, but as I said, I'm just offering generalised information, nothing specific to PerMa.

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I am sorry but i am not sure of what you mean : I need to use the included LOOT OR run the loot from MO (as I followed step guide, I can run LOOT directly from MO) ??? Why don't they mention this in step guide that they are incom patible ?

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It's not that they're incompatible it's just that they're different versions and work off a different masterlist in essence. 


What Grant's saying is if you use the one packed with MO, ALWAYS use that one. Likewise if you use the standalone you add as an executable, ALWAYS use that one. Don't use one one time and another the next time and expect everything to work out the same.


Hope that clears it? :D


I'd also add, while LOOT is an excellent and powerful tool, I always check it's output against suggest load orders given by Mod Authors on their pages. Perma has quite a good suggested load order in one of it's forum topics. LOOT doesn't always follow it, so I'll tweak it a little till it does.

Edited by Nozzer66

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Thanks a lot then , that's very clear !

This is right, I have use both......So now, I will use the LOOT downloaded version only. 

For us, non expert modders, we can just hope that we can have a pack with everything installed inside, ready to use ! Me for exemple, I can easily pay 50 euro for this, this is like byuing a game. But it looks it is not possible

I have spent about 5 weeks to mod skyrim; extended step version, plus several mods. I can run it smoothly, but small bug occurs, and I don't know what I do some times.....just follow the guides....

Modding is really a strange experience ( as you never stop to add new mods....i have 269 now after added immersive detection NPC yesterday )

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Thanks @Nozzer66 for translating for me. ::D:



If you want to be sure LOOT isn't messed up you will need to clean up that folder I mentioned earlier.


On my system that folder is found here:


Obviously you replace my name with yours. In this folder there is a folder called .Git and a file called masterlist.yaml, delete them both.

If you can't see the .Git folder it may be because you have the setting to not show files/folders with the 'Hidden' attribute. Change that setting in your Windows explorer window and it will show.


When you run the external LOOT application again new versions will downloaded to replace the ones you deleted.

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If I may add my two cents on this... I have found that LOOT botches the load order pretty badly when PerMa is thrown in the mix.  I generally follow Raulfin's load order suggestions on the PCaPP page under Forums>FAQs, but with a few adjustments. If you look at his suggested load order, read down to "All other ESPs", all mods that I have shown above that point (i.e. Apocalypse and up) I lock the load order after placing them in the order suggested by Raulfin.  I will run the external LOOT to re-order things, but because I locked the important stuff at the top, "All other ESPs" will be ordered correctly. Then follow the procedures shown in my "Advanced Installation" video. (I don't want to spam this thread with a video link, you can find it on the PerMa main page)


Doing it this way came from Raulfin's input, and has worked very well.

Edited by DirtyWeasel
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MMhh I have the masterlist.yaml exactly in the data you said, but no .Git folder....(I have userlist.yaml, reportdata.js and report html)  what should I do? delete only the masterlist yaml ????

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Thanks for your help....I am at holidays for 2 weeks, so I will have o look whan come back. Wathever, I decided to remove PERMA.....really too buggy for me (I lack the skills to make it work coreectly...I will open a post about this)

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