Helgen Reborn

[7hr08ik]

https://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/35841/?

 

It looks like a really good mod.....I instantly thought of Kvatch Rebuilt when i saw it.

 

But looking at the decription, it seems like the guy has made a good quality mod, but my issue is that you can`t start a new game with it installed. He says it causes issues.

 

My question, Is there any way to edit this mod, or a better option, create a patch that will only start helgen reborns questlines etc, when you get to a certain point...Perhaps after you`ve killed the first dragon in the main story questline.....That way theres no need to install the mod halfway into a game to avoid glitches.

 

I figure it must be possible coz AS-LAL edits the main questlines somewhat. And this mod would a be a great addition to any game.

[rootsrat]

I am planning to add it to my set up and will be definitely checking it for any STEP conflicts, so expext a report soon, possibly even this weekend.

[peppergomez]

So just to confirm-- it DOES require a new game start?

 

I don't know if I have it in me to begin a new game, given that there's not a lot of free time in my life for gaming.

 

Probably going to skip it sadly if a game restart is necessary.

[Balok]

Hey guys, this is Mike Hancho, author of Helgen Reborn. I found this thread and wanted to clear up some misunderstandings concerning my mod. The reason you cannot start a new character with HR active in your plugin list is a navmesh issue where almost any edit and finalization to the navmesh in some of the named Helgen Exterior cells breaks the cart ride at the beginning of the game. This is easily tested and repeatable, so try it yourself. Make a new empty plugin and pull up HelgenExterior06 which is the cell for my new Private Tower. Launch the navmesh utility, check for errors and finalize. Save your plugin and have it as the only plugin checked in your load order and start a new game. It will break the cart ride every time. Mind you, this is not even touching one single triangle or vert, and ONLY finalizing the vanilla navmesh. This procedure has been tested a dozen times by me as well as some of the most respected modders in the community, so I know I'm not crazy. This single issue almost caused me to scrap the entire project after MONTHS of very hard work. Thanks to some very encouraging comments and support from other modders, I decided to continue the project even though I knew people would blame me for something completely out of my control. And I knew many, many people would not take the time or care enough to understand the situation and would simply say my mod was broken and sucks. So I can assure you, I did not come to this decision lightly, and I agonized over it for quite some time. But, it is what it is as they say, and for those who can work around this problem, they've found that it's actually a pretty decent mod. However, no type of scripting that I'm aware of will prevent this issue from breaking the cart ride. The only solution is to not edit the navmesh which would completely gut my mod because at a minimum, I have to finalize to set the teleports for all my new shops.

 

The second issue I would like to address is how and when to start my mod. Beginning with V103 I completely overhauled the way it starts my questline. You could always have my mod installed in your Data files, but as I said, if you have it checked and start a new character it will break the cart ride because of the navmesh issue. In previous versions I had it scripted to check to check to see if "Unbound" was finished, and if it was it would register the time and 4 days later the next time you changed locations it would trigger my quest. Well, that confused the hell out of people, and because some Alt. Start mods change the way all that stuff with MQ101 and 102 are set it was a nightmare for me. So I completely overhauled the start which is why you now get the book with my suggestions on how to proceed. I know it's not the most immersive way to start a quest, but I simply couldn't take the incessant posts saying my mod was broken and wouldn't start. Now, everything was placed in the player's hands. If they actually read the book and follow my suggestions, fine. If not, it's no longer my fault, lol.

 

Now, on to explain why I suggest you do certain things before getting too deep in my quest. Please understand, this mod is not like most other mods. I RADICALLY edit an ENTIRE vanilla town! And that is a town that was once BUILT - when you are in the cart the town is not destroyed - and is then destryoed by the vanilla game. So, that really means I had to deal with TWO versions of the same town! I'm not going to bore you with all the specifics, but essentially, I had to figure a way to either disable or hide nearly every vanilla object within the walls of Helgen, then recreate the ENTIRE thing with my own assets, so that I could then disable the destroyed stuff and enable the new stuff in the various construction stages I have scripted. Well, WTF does that have to do with the bandits and the whole waiting 4 days issue? Well, the devs threw a monkey wrench into the mix because that particular enable parent that controls that and several other things ONLY enables after you've been in the game 4 days AND enter Whiterun! Therefore, when I call that enable parent to disable, it CANNOT disable if it was not previously enabled! That is why I suggest waiting 4 days and going to Whiterun. Coincidentally, for users of Live Another Life, that same enable parent also disables the second rock collapse that Arthmoor adds, which is why that is such an important thing to do because that collapse completely blocks access to the lower keep. No access, and my NPC's stack up there because the door is blocked, and they cannot follow their normal packages.

 

I know this is a lengthy post, and I apologize for the wall-o-text, but I wanted to explain why certain things are the way they are with this mod. If any of you guys have played my other mods or this one, I hope you can tell the tremendous effort I put into the little details. So if I take that amount of care and pride in my work, it stands to reason that these issues were well thought out, and no other way that I can come up with will eliminate them. Certainly, if anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. But believe me, I've been through all of this months ago, and I haven't seen any viable solutions yet, because I'm dealing with stuff from the vanilla game as well as other mods.

 

Thanks for reading this if you did. If you have any questions, please let me know. The best place to ask is probably my comments thread for the mod at the Nexus.

[Balok]

So just to confirm-- it DOES require a new game start?

 

I don't know if I have it in me to begin a new game, given that there's not a lot of free time in my life for gaming.

 

Probably going to skip it sadly if a game restart is necessary.

No, it does NOT require a new start. You can play with any level character and at any time after the cart ride in the intro of the game.

[Neovalen]

Thank you for the long informative post. :)

[torminater]

Thanks Mike, I think I'll put it on my list :-)

[peppergomez]

Thanks for the answer

[7hr08ik]

Thanks for answers you've given me. After a few long long hours staring at CK and pulling out hair, I've given up on my idea. I've realised that even if I can get the courier (was trying to revive the one in the mod) and therefore make the mod start up at a later point there would still be the mesh issues that you've mentioned.

 

Damn fine mod though sir!

 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[c0c0c0]

So what's the concern with waiting a few days to activate the ESP? I'm assuming you can have it installed and BOSSed and BASHed without it being active, without any risk of corruption, right? I've seen some people saying not to add ANY mods after the initial load, but isn't that a little conservative?

[rootsrat]

So what's the concern with waiting a few days to activate the ESP? I'm assuming you can have it installed and BOSSed and BASHed without it being active, without any risk of corruption, right? I've seen some people saying not to add ANY mods after the initial load, but isn't that a little conservative?

 

There is a very informative explanation by the mod author a few posts above.

[c0c0c0]

 

So what's the concern with waiting a few days to activate the ESP? I'm assuming you can have it installed and BOSSed and BASHed without it being active without any risk of corruption, right? I've seen some people saying not to add ANY mods after the initial load, but isn't that a little conservative?

There is a very informative explanation by the mod author a few posts above.

 

I read it.  And the instructions on the mod itself.  It's on my short list.  What I'm suggesting is what he's suggesting:  Load at initiation, but don't activate it until Helgen has "settled".  My question was more along the lines of, "why do many folks see this as a problem?"  And, to make sure everyone understands my tone, I'm truly curious.  I'm a long-time Oblivion modder but just started Skyrim a couple weeks ago.

[Wormheart]

I suppose I'd agree to a very small degree, I'd always want to start a new game with the Unofficial Patches installed rather than adding them in midstream. But only because they contain a bunch of fixes that only take effect with a new start. I'd say it is pretty safe to load most mods midstream unless the author specifically states that the mod requires a new start. It's also safe to try when using a great mod manager and keeping a backup of your saves when you add new mods, you can then roll back easily if you do notice anything unusual.

 

 

As for Helgen Reborn, I definitely give it my endorsement, and I'm pretty early into it still. I did make three small changes to the radiant quests.

 

I am playing without the compass visible and without using the world map, only using quest descriptions, exploration and Clairvoyance. I had no idea where I had to go for the radiant quests, so I simply:

1) changed the objectives of the radiant quests to Kill x inside ,

2) set the location alias to store text, and

3) added a condition to the boss alias that read GetDead == 0 (used the Companions radiant quest "Trouble in Skyrim" as a guide to see how they prevented sending you somewhere that hadn't respawned yet).

 

I tried adding an additional alias "LocationHold" like the Trouble In Skyrim quest has, but in doing so, the quests wouldn't complete. I suspect the CK was not updating the scripts properly. I aim to try that change again eventually, then the objective would read Kill x inside in  eg: Kill x inside Greywater Grotto in Falkreath.

 

Now that I own Fallout 3 and NV I'll have to checkout your mods over there Mike, looking forward to anything else you come up with 

[Balok]

As for Helgen Reborn, I definitely give it my endorsement, and I'm pretty early into it still. I did make three small changes to the radiant quests.

 

I am playing without the compass visible and without using the world map, only using quest descriptions, exploration and Clairvoyance. I had no idea where I had to go for the radiant quests, so I simply:

1) changed the objectives of the radiant quests to Kill x inside ,

2) set the location alias to store text, and

3) added a condition to the boss alias that read GetDead == 0 (used the Companions radiant quest "Trouble in Skyrim" as a guide to see how they prevented sending you somewhere that hadn't respawned yet).

 

I tried adding an additional alias "LocationHold" like the Trouble In Skyrim quest has, but in doing so, the quests wouldn't complete. I suspect the CK was not updating the scripts properly. I aim to try that change again eventually, then the objective would read Kill x inside in  eg: Kill x inside Greywater Grotto in Falkreath.

 

Now that I own Fallout 3 and NV I'll have to checkout your mods over there Mike, looking forward to anything else you come up with 

 

Thanks Wormheart, I'll definitely look at that radiant quest and also try your conditions. Please reply back with anything else you figure out too!

[Balok]

3) added a condition to the boss alias that read GetDead == 0 (used the Companions radiant quest "Trouble in Skyrim" as a guide to see how they prevented sending you somewhere that hadn't respawned yet).

 

Is that Run On > Quest Alias: Boss?