really need help (dont understand the whole thing, ernest question, short and simple)

[schrecksekunde]

hi,

 

i am maybe the biggest idiot alive but i dont get STEP....

 

i was looking for an "overhaul", some sort of package which i could download and use as a base for additional modding  (if i wish to do so) - and thats what i thought STEP is. the whole page and the constant repeating of "release", "update" and "version" made me believe this, especially the constant mentioning of (for example) "STEP v2.2.3 has been released! Download the file and check out the changelog for details on how to update. etc". then i downloaded the file - and got a pdf.

 

the pdf linked me to a wiki. the wiki links to some guides which explain basic stuff you should know when modding. and then to a liist of mods (very similar to the top list of nexus. and thats where i got stuck. please dont think this is ment as an attack/critics/an attempt to flame STEP - it _really_ isnt.

 

IF STEP is actually a pack which i can download PLEASE can someone just post a simple link to it ? the pdf leads to the wiki and so on and so on, in the end you run in circles.

 

if STEP is a LIST of mods you _should_ install (each mod on its own, based on the rating of this community) but doesnt provide anything than this list then please say so on nexus. i was/am really asking myself if i am a complete idiot or if someone is trying to make me one. i am playing tes since part 1, modded everyone massivly but just couldnt keep track of all the possibilities that exist in skyrim (in oblivion there was the mod tool and that was it, you could manipulate/create objects very easy). and if STEP is the same as GEMS (a "you should do this..." and no overhaul/collection) then you should really change the text -cause i know some other players who are also completly confused and frustrated by this pdf-link-linlk-nirvana" thing (or are just as blind as i am, no idea), the nexus page is not clear on what step really does/is and is expecially completly misleading everytime the word "download" is mentioned.

 

please dont see this as flaming/whatever, all i ask for is a simple answer if i´m completly unable to find an "overhaul" or if this project is a guide.and that, for the sake of this project, you shoudl clarify that on nexus. cause i already heard some players speaking about step "being a fake which tries to get endorments by faking things it doesnt offer"

 

with best wishes and plea for clarifying,

 

schreck

 

ps : i´ll keep this thread open as i hope to get an answer soon, i just want an easier way to get the base mods running than having to install/clean/sort the same 20-40 standard mods over and over. i dont want a flame-war nor any insults, i´ll try to reply (as long as i can stay awake) and am willing to accept that i was wrong if i am.

[EssArrBee]

STEP has been around since just after Skyrim released and has been a guide that recommends mods that make the game look and play better. The overhaul itself will come from installing all or most of the mods in the guide. There is no way to package every mod in the guide in one package because it would be impossible to maintain with each individual mod updating every so often. Also, getting permission to the files in a package from the authors would be difficult as well.

 

STEP started as a pdf guide that you would download and follow, but has become a seires of guides to mod and maintain Skyrim. The current pdf download is more to allow people the chance to download something so they can endorse the mod on the nexus to keep it relevant.

 

If you are looking for one mod that is an overhaul of everything for Skyrim, I do not think anyone has created one yet.

[schrecksekunde]

oh thats what i mainly wanted to know !

 

i modded the previous parts a lot, even made some myself (just small edits or additions to new items etc, nothing that´s coming close to the mods actually existing) so i know that there isnt "one big pack" that makes the game work the way you want it. i had the impression from the nexus page - and thats the part i think should be changed or explained better  - that STEP is like a basic mod pack of "you _really_ should use those"-mods in 3 categorys that saves the normal player the annoying installation of exactly those mods (skyui, immersive armors, wet+cold etc) which has to be repeated limitless times because _everytime_ there is a point (at least i experienced that) when  one mod, if not installed by this or that manager, if not installed in the correct order or so forces you to start over again. just because after installing 20 mods most players lose the patience to do each mod at once, check it, if there´s an error roll back and undo all edits in the .ini and so on - or because you find yourself having to install 5 mod-addons for making this specific mod work with 3 other mods (and again in a special order) and make one move wrong. and, if you take a look on the comments of the STEP page on nexus, i´m not the only one who got that wrong. i had some experience already modding TES, but a LOT of people even feel tricked because the description speaks of a "complete overhaul" which you can "download" and "update" - and after downloading it you have a (lousy) pdf with a link.

 

why not explain it better, just put the link _directly_ on the nexus page and by doing this dont make the wrong impression that STEP tries to get the download-stats pimped by letting them download a pdf which could - instead of the 10-page (and inaccurate) description - be put on the page itself with a 1-page explanation that SAYS "this is a project that keeps track of which mods are still being updated, which ones can work together, which ones are recommendable but you still have to do it yourself -mainly because we dont have the right to put other modders stuff into a collection and we dont have the energy or will to contact 500000 people if we might use them". i checked out gems and step and really like the idea but some things are just....not well done or even make the impression to chisel endorsments or downloads (for example linking gems to step and other way around....i am for sure responsible for at least 10 downloads in the counter because i repeatedly tried to finally get this "package"

 

just take a look at this part of the description : "STEP provides an enhanced vanilla experience by utilizing a minimum or “Core†set of game enhancements adhering to the original vanilla feel of the game according to the STEP Mandate. All Core mods are considered essential to all STEP "versions". Non-Core mods are optional but highly recommended."

 

doesnt that make the impression that STEP actually DOES something ? it would be much more accurate to say it helps to keep track of those mods and informs you, but "provide" is just not the right word. i can imagine (even if i dont want to ) what work it is to check all the mods, to even find out if this 19 year old guy who had a great idea 3 weeks ago even checks out the nexus page or still plays the game/remembers he had uploaded "this small mod". but check out the comments...8081 atm and most of them are people asking where the hell the actual "mod" is, if its broken and so on....you dont get this number from people downloading a pdf and then having the feeling they had to express their deep thanks for a list of mods. i dont want to sabotage STEP, i dont want to say i could do it better....i just think it´s better for the project to clearly say what it _actually_ does, not what someone may get when he does everything exactly as told AND if nothing goes wrong (cause a badly done new version ruins the whole chain, cause you didnt find one of the million incompatibilities between those mods). cause thats exactly what made a LOT of players stop using the steam workshop, i tried to use 3-4 collections (from the best rated, even one from pcgamer) from there and the 1st run of BOSS threw out like 5 complete errors, tons of obsolete mods and other stuff - and i had to restore the backup for the 50th time.

 

just my 2 cents, its your project and it´s your business how you present it. i think its better to tell  the users what they have to expect, what they will have to read and learn and that it means a lot of work for them too instead of using amazing words to describe the possible result that´s even hard work for people who do this for years.

 

thx for the answer and please dont get it wrong, i just think it´s better to tell someone when there is the chance that people might expect something completly different than having hundreds turn away from a project in anger.

 

good luck,

 

schreck

[rootsrat]

I think you're asking valid questions there and perhaps we could look at improving the description text so that it depicts what STEP is in a better way. Leaving this for admins to decide.

 

However, I have to strongly disagree with your statement that STEP is just a guide or just a list of mods similar to GEMS.

 

STEP is a guide, that is a fact. However - the guide is extremely exhaustive. It covers installation of STEAM, Skyrim itself, recommends some useful INI tweaks and then puts all the included mods in the CORRECT INSTALL ORDER, which is critical for game stability and the best visual experience.

 

If you took all those STEP mods and installed them in some random order, your game wouldn't look as good (as many texture mods would be installed in wrong order and - effectively - incorrect textures used in the game. Your game would not be stable either, as some files would have been overwritten in the incorrect order. And so on.

 

In addition, STEP offers many other guides that will make your Skyrim experience better: optimising textures, setting up and using mod managers, conflict resolution tools etc. These guides are created by experienced people, who were kind enough to share the knowledge.

 

Furthermore, each and single mod that STEP recommends is extensively tested by STEP community (have a look at MOD SUGGESTIONS > MOD TESTING forum) to ensure that they are error free and that they provide best possible experience that will not cause your game to crash every 5 minutes.

 

So, as you can see, STEP is much more than "just a guide".

[schrecksekunde]

maybe i said it wrong (alltough i doubt it : " i can imagine (even if i dont want to ) what work it is to check all the mods, to even find out if this 19 year old guy who had a great idea 3 weeks ago even checks out the nexus page or still plays the game/remembers he had uploaded "this small mod"." <- that was ment to show that i dont think all you do is copy-paste the top files of the nexus, i saw you were checking which mod was actually installed as it should be with wyre bash, nmm, you spent for sure a lot of time with the texture combiner  (as i did) and that alone is a HELL of a work).

 

i just had a guy asking me if there is a "complete pack where he can run the setup" so it looks like the videos of sharpshooters extreme end on youtube.....i didnt know if i should laugh histerically or start screaming......for them STEP _could_ maybe, when they read every word, never get careless and have a understanding of modding BE a help. for me it is a nice "ok, if i use THOSE mods i can at least be quite sure that i wont end up smashing my head against the keyboard when the 175th mod for whatever reason makes it crash"....all i wanted to say is the "advertising" that is obvious on the nexus page is - maybe because you put that much work in it and just want to let the users know that it WAS hard, maybe because you dont want to have it sink into nirvana after 2 weeks - not "done well"

 

if i had never modded anything i´d expect this to be THE solution. one file, i´ll install it (setup.exe) and then i am in cyberspace ! and most people on the nexus DID never mod  anything (and for sure never modify/create a package-system game like skyrim is before. so they´ll end up with the pdf, write some flame-**** into the comments, tell all their friends that nexus is comolete crap and will never touch it again. they dont KNOW there is hard work to be done for a game thats just a modular system made of interacting parts so it even  gets 20 mods running.

 

that´s all i wanted to say, never intended to downgrade the effort you´ve already put into it. but if you dont tell them that this wont be a ponyride like buying a dllc on any other game, pressing install -done  then you´ll - by accident - make it hard for your own project. and that would be sad.

 

that were my 2000 cent, i hope i could make my intention clear.....just add some lines on top of the descrtpion saying "No, we will not reprogramm the game as you wish, you´ll have quite some hours ahead. but we´ll help you and it WILL be worth it" and i think it will get it out of some trouble / flames.

 

good luck guys, will now (AGAIN) start from the beginning - but this time with your help ;)

 

 

good luck

 

chris

 

ps : is there an irc channel or anything like that were i could ask some quick questions if i happen to get lost in the process (or maybe show you a part that isnt explained as well as it should be) ? i´ve got steam running all time (nick is schrecksekunde), if someone would be so nice and just add me (i wont let HIM do the work...but when you´ve just got 50 working and suddenly something isnt working posting it, waiting 12h for a response ... no, i´d shoot myself but irc/whatever would be fine too....thx anyway ! 

[MontyMM]

well, the short description on the nexus does make it clear that step is a guide, and the download is clearly marked as a guide too. I don't think we'd be too concerned about flaming and bad mouthing - that's just part of life on the nexus, even for the very best and most hard working modders. You just have to learn to tune it out, or you'll just get bitter and burned out no matter how hard you try.

 

We have looked in great detail at the possibility of automating step for casual users. The first problem is that the nexus, quite understandably, denied us permission to automate downloads from their servers.

 

The idea of creating a consolidated pack would be great, but it would be a nightmare managing permissions, particularly as we must risk upsetting modders by being honestly critical. Also, things have changed in recent times, with endorsements, and, crucially, donations, making it far more likely that modders will want to retain control of their mods on the nexus.

 

The final possibility is automating at least the reconfiguring , optimizing and restructuring of mods. This is quite possible, and I've looked into it in some detail. The difficulty is that, which ever way you slice it, you run into the need to maintain and update the automation process to account for new mod versions. Many updates are quite radical, and these have to be manually examined and reconfigured. In the past, we haven't had the manpower and community input to make this viable. But, with our new expanded team, this is still something I would like to make happen in time.

[mortimermcmire]

it would be a nightmare managing permissions

 

This is why it took ten years for Morrowind to get an automated pack. All of the authors either didn't care or couldn't be contacted. It's even too early for Oblivion, as many authors don't want to lose control. And with Skyrim mods are updated so frequently each individual author couldn't be held responsible for staying compatible. 

 

God forbid an author revoke permissions halfway through the process. 

 

Another point that hasn't been brought up is the fact that a flat automated process of "copy paste these 25 GB of files" would stifle creativity. Why should someone attempt a better retexture? Everyone already uses this massive pack because it's drag and drop, if it's not included they won't want to expend the extra effort and their mods won't get used. (Did I mention the filesize would be massive?)

[Besidilo]

well, the short description on the nexus does make it clear that step is a guide, and the download is clearly marked as a guide too. I don't think we'd be too concerned about flaming and bad mouthing - that's just part of life on the nexus, even for the very best and most hard working modders. You just have to learn to tune it out, or you'll just get bitter and burned out no matter how hard you try.

 

We have looked in great detail at the possibility of automating step for casual users. The first problem is that the nexus, quite understandably, denied us permission to automate downloads from their servers.

 

The idea of creating a consolidated pack would be great, but it would be a nightmare managing permissions, particularly as we must risk upsetting modders by being honestly critical. Also, things have changed in recent times, with endorsements, and, crucially, donations, making it far more likely that modders will want to retain control of their mods on the nexus.

 

The final possibility is automating at least the reconfiguring , optimizing and restructuring of mods. This is quite possible, and I've looked into it in some detail. The difficulty is that, which ever way you slice it, you run into the need to maintain and update the automation process to account for new mod versions. Many updates are quite radical, and these have to be manually examined and reconfigured. In the past, we haven't had the manpower and community input to make this viable. But, with our new expanded team, this is still something I would like to make happen in time.

Actually, I've looked at the STEP page on Nexus and the OP is right, the word "guide" is not mentioned anywhere. In fact, if I haven't been following the guide since its early conception by The Compiler, I would have no clue what it is from just eyeing up the description on Skyrim Nexus today. It really does seem a bit unclear when the core features listed make it look like a total overhaul. Whether it's bad wording or an intentional thing, doesn't probably change how the guide is perceived by new users.

 

I also thought making the download a single pdf page linking to the Wiki guide was a bad idea and I raised my concerns months about it months ago. A periodical release of a proper PDF guide was discussed but I don't know what happened to the idea of bringing it back in that form.

 

Either way, directly linking to the Wiki guide would be a good idea. Nexus is terribly slow and unreliable these days and having to go through the trouble of downloading a small pdf file just to find the actual page for STEP doesn't sound like the best way to market this otherwise brilliant guide.

 

The idea of Automatic STEP has been around as long as this forum. I really don't think it's happening, so maybe it's best not to talk about it unless something empirical is in the works (the early projects were far from any kind of release last time I checked, and such program would need to be maintained on daily basis).

[MontyMM]

The short text on the Nexus is what displays as a description of the "mod" in the listings.  For STEP it reads:

 

"STEP is an extensive STEP-by-STEP guide to enhancing TESV SKyrim with the best mods, tweaks and settings."

 

The description of the download is:

 

"This is a PDF containing a link to the wiki guide. Please download in support of STEP on the Nexus!"

 

If it's agreed that there is a lack of clarity on the main page, we can certainly update it.

 

I don't personally feel any great concern about the current PDF download.  It's not ideal and hopefully we'll have a better solution in due course.

 

We're going to carry on talking about automation until/if we can put something workable together.  No promises.

[Besidilo]

The short text on the Nexus is what displays as a description of the "mod" in the listings.  For STEP it reads:

 

"STEP is an extensive STEP-by-STEP guide to enhancing TESV SKyrim with the best mods, tweaks and settings."

And yet the word "guide" is totally absent in the whole Description page of the "mod". I can see how it's confusing to people who stumble upon it by chance or by having it recommended by other players.

The description of the download is:

 

"This is a PDF containing a link to the wiki guide. Please download in support of STEP on the Nexus!"

 

If it's agreed that there is a lack of clarity on the main page, we can certainly update it.

My concern was not the description of the download file, but the actual content of it. I really think it deters a lot of people from downloading and endorsing the project, plus there will be a large group of users who'll simply give up after downloading a page with a link to another page.

I don't personally feel any great concern about the current PDF download.  It's not ideal and hopefully we'll have a better solution in due course.

It really isn't the best solution and I'm not the only person that has raised this issue in the past.

We're going to carry on talking about automation until/if we can put something workable together.  No promises.

I appreciate that. I was merely suggesting not to get casual users' hopes up about it since the project would require a lot of work and issues such as Nexus disallowing you to provide automated downloads (however retarded it is, since that's how NMM or MO work anyway) might put a halt to it at any point. Then you've got modders like Starac who get offended by being put among other, "inferior" modders.

[MontyMM]

That's all fair comment, IMO.  I'll add the short description text to the head of the main page, for clarity.

 

There was some talk a little while back about other options for maintaining a presence on the Nexus besides the PDF.  I'll see where we are with that.

 

I wouldn't generally tout the idea of automation too much, but I felt it was worth mentioning as part of the summary, in response to the OP's question about why STEP can't be made more convenient.   

[Freyrgjurd]

For the "better nexus use":

 

We could have STEP modders. For example: Modders that ''remake'' (with permission) or create "similar mods" (within the rules of nexus) exclusive for STEP use, and host it there.

 

Take Simple Crosshair, it is a "remake" of Small Crosshair.

 

Just an idea.

[schrecksekunde]

was taking a look on this thread and am really surprised...by now i didnt get called a *insert insult containing flamer, n00b, something regarding hitler* ...weird o_0

 

ok, the main thing still doesnt seem to be clear to all : i dont mean step claims, fakes or anything. what i  mean and meant is that a "standard nexus user who just registered and didnt mod a lot before" who takes a look at this page (https://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/11//?) 1st of all is looking at "enhanced skyrim experience". then he doesnt read all words ("step by step blabla enhancing blabla best mods (!!!!) blabla improving and fixing" - and thats it. sure, it says "guide" but when you can download it on nexus it _has_ to be a mod ...who would upload a pdf with a link to another page anyway ? (cynism)

 

then he flies over the next parts ..."Oh, performance....extreme...THATS mine"... and sees the word "released". and that´s it. he´ll for _sure_ not read all the other stuff on the description, he´ll not care to take a look on any other info....he has the GEMS logo, the word overhaul and - when it isnt exactly THAT - he´ll be pissed. i know that because that was (mainly) the way i started a long time ago on nexus.they have no clue of the work, the problems (copyrights, yeah !) and all that stuff...he´s looking for a simple, easy and especially _perfect_ solution. thats why stuff like edws, cot and so on are always the top mods. and i´d really ask you to take a look at the edws page cause i think they´re presenting the stuff it does, how it does it and what the user has to do in the best way i´ve seen (i dont mean the quality of edws, thats another story). fancy compare-pictures, some (short) sentences on "super-new"-technology and thats it.

 

same with a lot of the other top mods. take for example WATER. easy to understand, you get what it does in 1 minute and you can see what you´ve got to do in the same time. tons of mods aren´t on the top 50 files cause they´re so good but because a) they got a pic of a half-naked elve on the starting page and b) cause they have nearly no text. and, to be honest, what is the good of all those lines of text on the page anyway ? make a short - and clear - description, add some other tabs for "how you can help" and so on and you´ll have more happy users and far less people who dont even try to use step cause they cant read more than  5 lines in a row.

 

i´m working through the guide now for 3 days (with a lot of breaks), rank step close to god for showing me mod organizer and will for sure break your kneecaps if this whole bunch of mods wont work ;)

and if i wouldnt have played the pdf-link-forum-nexus-game a dozen times i´d be playing it already for some weeks...really....less is more, especially in times when the average user in the net is too lazy to google stuff (you wouldnt believe what i get asked - and the answers i get on "did you google it already?" )

 

thx for the whole project, thx for your patience - and think about how much you love your kneecaps ;)))

 

cheers

 

schreck

[DoYouEvenModBro]

oh thats what i mainly wanted to know !

 

i modded the previous parts a lot, even made some myself (just small edits or additions to new items etc, nothing that´s coming close to the mods actually existing) so i know that there isnt "one big pack" that makes the game work the way you want it. i had the impression from the nexus page - and thats the part i think should be changed or explained better  - that STEP is like a basic mod pack of "you _really_ should use those"-mods in 3 categorys that saves the normal player the annoying installation of exactly those mods (skyui, immersive armors, wet+cold etc) which has to be repeated limitless times because _everytime_ there is a point (at least i experienced that) when  one mod, if not installed by this or that manager, if not installed in the correct order or so forces you to start over again. just because after installing 20 mods most players lose the patience to do each mod at once, check it, if there´s an error roll back and undo all edits in the .ini and so on - or because you find yourself having to install 5 mod-addons for making this specific mod work with 3 other mods (and again in a special order) and make one move wrong. and, if you take a look on the comments of the STEP page on nexus, i´m not the only one who got that wrong. i had some experience already modding TES, but a LOT of people even feel tricked because the description speaks of a "complete overhaul" which you can "download" and "update" - and after downloading it you have a (lousy) pdf with a link.

 

why not explain it better, just put the link _directly_ on the nexus page and by doing this dont make the wrong impression that STEP tries to get the download-stats pimped by letting them download a pdf which could - instead of the 10-page (and inaccurate) description - be put on the page itself with a 1-page explanation that SAYS "this is a project that keeps track of which mods are still being updated, which ones can work together, which ones are recommendable but you still have to do it yourself -mainly because we dont have the right to put other modders stuff into a collection and we dont have the energy or will to contact 500000 people if we might use them". i checked out gems and step and really like the idea but some things are just....not well done or even make the impression to chisel endorsments or downloads (for example linking gems to step and other way around....i am for sure responsible for at least 10 downloads in the counter because i repeatedly tried to finally get this "package"

 

just take a look at this part of the description : "STEP provides an enhanced vanilla experience by utilizing a minimum or “Core†set of game enhancements adhering to the original vanilla feel of the game according to the STEP Mandate. All Core mods are considered essential to all STEP "versions". Non-Core mods are optional but highly recommended."

 

doesnt that make the impression that STEP actually DOES something ? it would be much more accurate to say it helps to keep track of those mods and informs you, but "provide" is just not the right word. i can imagine (even if i dont want to ) what work it is to check all the mods, to even find out if this 19 year old guy who had a great idea 3 weeks ago even checks out the nexus page or still plays the game/remembers he had uploaded "this small mod". but check out the comments...8081 atm and most of them are people asking where the hell the actual "mod" is, if its broken and so on....you dont get this number from people downloading a pdf and then having the feeling they had to express their deep thanks for a list of mods. i dont want to sabotage STEP, i dont want to say i could do it better....i just think it´s better for the project to clearly say what it _actually_ does, not what someone may get when he does everything exactly as told AND if nothing goes wrong (cause a badly done new version ruins the whole chain, cause you didnt find one of the million incompatibilities between those mods). cause thats exactly what made a LOT of players stop using the steam workshop, i tried to use 3-4 collections (from the best rated, even one from pcgamer) from there and the 1st run of BOSS threw out like 5 complete errors, tons of obsolete mods and other stuff - and i had to restore the backup for the 50th time.

 

just my 2 cents, its your project and it´s your business how you present it. i think its better to tell  the users what they have to expect, what they will have to read and learn and that it means a lot of work for them too instead of using amazing words to describe the possible result that´s even hard work for people who do this for years.

 

thx for the answer and please dont get it wrong, i just think it´s better to tell someone when there is the chance that people might expect something completly different than having hundreds turn away from a project in anger.

 

good luck,

 

schreck

I'm pretty new to modding. Skyrim was actually the first game I've ever modded but I'm pretty sure that the description for STEP is 100% clear and I was able to understand it from the getko.. But more clarity is never a bad thing.

[schrecksekunde]

yes, _can_ be.....but think about a console-player (may they all burn in hell !)  who finds  out that skyrim on his "computer" looks damn much better. you´ll have done some installs, some configurations and other stuff before....they dont.i had a guy asking me if he could get step done in 15-20 minutes,  he´d buy the super-ultimate-deluxe version anyway. when i told him that i had avout 20-30 complete modifications /with up 1to 230 mods + 3enbs by now and maybe played them  10 hours he  replied  "Oh, too much work then, i thought that´s a dlc."

 

these guys are the ones telling you that he CANT play a shooter wiith a mouse, that a keyboard is far to complicated and asks you what he should do with a .txt file (i ckicked it 20 times now and all i get is word" o_O

 

and skyrim IS extremly easy to mod (when you know how to handle the tools an  which pages to use.

 

" but I'm pretty sure that the description for STEP is 100% clear" is a thing i habe my problems with. cause then you know how to benchmark (what it even is), how to clean mods  and get compaibility patches together and also that just because a mod says "all in one"  - like lanterns of skyrim - doenst mean you just have to put ALL esps in the game.

 

pls. dont see this as an negaive critics, step is the BEST     modding guide-compilation with the best info on what do do and so on.  but i doubt thaz someone without some years in moddin g can handle resedit lright , the texture  bombiiner pack working or even  is able to satr the game after  the 6tj ,pd