Any way I can improve these billboards?

[kojak747]

Hi Sheson,

 

I'm trying to improve these billboards to look less blobby and am going through a few ideas on things to try.

 

https://imgur.com/kNGvkIK

 

I'm wondering if there was much much less detail, would the billboard look less 'blobby'.

 

I thought about decimating the mesh, but it's only 4 triangles. If it were more, could a decimated billboard mesh have more holes in it i.e let more light through.   

 

Another way I thought of removing detail is to remove (make transparent) parts of the billboard, something like an offset checker pattern so you still retain the tree outline and some detail in the middle.

 

I also tried an 8 bit filter in Photoshop, but it didn't make any difference.

 

I tried Static tree at LOD8 and it fixes it but the performance hit is too much. Could a set of heavily (90%=>) decimated ultra lods be a thing at LOD8?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 29, 2019 by kojak747

[zilav]

I think the problem here is your lighting mod and harsh normals on LOD meshes which make it more apparent. Spherical normals bending on leaves will probably help a bit.

[sheson]

You mean the somewhat darker trees in the background?

 

Try creating a normal map for one of them and see if it helps.

 

Use NifSkope's to make 4 textures. Shine full sun but no ambient light onto the model from top, bottom, left, right.

 

Then use xNormal Tools, PhotoNormal option to create the normal map from that.

 

You may want to also do the diffuse at the same time so they match in size and position better.

[kojak747]

I'm getting some weird offset stuff going on in xNormal - did you ever come across this problem

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/380787785604268033/583422674412371970/unknown.png

[sheson]

If I remember correctly it dislikes non-square textures for that operation.
 
This version of treelod.exe with -square -format:8888 should do the trick.
 
Trim the result afterwards to match the diffuse dimensions ratio.

Edited May 30, 2019 by sheson

[kojak747]

Thanks, got that working, but I'm having a bit of trouble locating the actual billboard nif (the X plane one). Do you know where it resides?

[sheson]

Thanks, got that working, but I'm having a bit of trouble locating the actual billboard nif (the X plane one). Do you know where it resides?

The normal map is used automatically for trees in object LOD. It just needs to be right next to the diffuse [billboard].dds as the usual [billboard]_n.dds

 

The log should then not show a for those trees.

 

If you want to make use of spherical normal vectors, set the tree mesh rules to use "Billboard2" instead of "Billboard". See DynDOLOD\Docs\trees.ultra\DynDOLOD-Trees.html Internal Billboards and External Billboards.

If "Billboard2" has a bad affect on the other billboards without a normal map, just make a new mesh rule for the pines (like treepineforest0) you created the normal maps for.

 

It would be great if you could test with both "Billboard" and "Billboard2" and make screenshots so we can see if it makes any difference.

Edited May 31, 2019 by sheson

[kojak747]

Results:

 

IT WORKS! 

 

https://imgur.com/a/3Wu50cK

 

This is not a fair comparison however - Something went wrong with xNormal so I had to resort to PhotoShop to create the normals. There are a few options I will explore in the PS DDS export settings when creating the normal maps, I'm certain they can be improved. Overall though, it is a big improvement and Billboard2 appears to work very well with my NLA based setup. Thankyou. 

 

Now I'm much closer to the correct lighting levels, the tree billboard textures saturation is too high. I can do it in PS via batch edit, but if I wanted to edit it directly on the DyndolodTreeAtlas, I was going to edit the area in the blue box? Would that work? This is not how the final setup will be, I just want to edit the atlas directly to save time. Once I get the values I'm after I will edit the billboards directly.

 

Also, Ignore the transparent areas in the pine trees (in the blue box) - I'm experimenting at the same time to see if I can 'let more light in' so to speak.

 

Cheers

 

edit: I also noticed that the billboard size changed when running Billboard2 and doubled in size. I disabled any associated [billboard].txt files for the billboards. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by kojak747

[sheson]

Results:

 

IT WORKS! 

 

https://imgur.com/a/3Wu50cK

 

This is not a fair comparison however - Something went wrong with xNormal so I had to resort to PhotoShop to create the normals. There are a few options I will explore in the PS DDS export settings when creating the normal maps, I'm certain they can be improved. Overall though, it is a big improvement and Billboard2 appears to work very well with my NLA based setup. Thankyou. 

 

Now I'm much closer to the correct lighting levels, the tree billboard textures saturation is too high. I can do it in PS via batch edit, but if I wanted to edit it directly on the DyndolodTreeAtlas, I was going to edit the area in the blue box? Would that work? This is not how the final setup will be, I just want to edit the atlas directly to save time. Once I get the values I'm after I will edit the billboards directly.

 

Also, Ignore the transparent areas in the pine trees (in the blue box) - I'm experimenting at the same time to see if I can 'let more light in' so to speak.

 

Cheers

 

edit: I also noticed that the billboard size changed when running Billboard2 and doubled in size. I disabled any associated [billboard].txt files for the billboards. 

Normally nothing is using these old vanilla atlases anymore. However, if you edit anything in the texture, rename it to [something]treelod.dds.

 

Remember, LOD only has transparancy with a 128 threshold. At that distance it is very likely a higher (lower resolution) mipmap is used.

 

There should be no size change between internal billboard and the external billboard2. Can you send me an example billboard dds/txt?.

[kojak747]

Quick question - I've got this error popped up in my DynDOLOD log. The billboard isn't found at a non existent path or something. Not sure how to proceed. Also, I've updated the tree mod, many fixes, and new ultralods for SFO snowpines.

 

LVTHSTreePineForestSnow01 [TREE:1700AA8B] meshes\spooknik\landscape\trees\lvttreepineforestsnowheavy01.nif

Billboard not found <textures\terrain\lodgen\myrkvior.esp\lvttreepineforestsnowheavy01_0000aa8btextures\terrain\lodgen\myrkvior.esp\lvthstreepineforestsnow01_0000aa8b.dds>, 3D LOD found 

LOD4: meshes\dyndolod\lod\trees\lvttreepineforestsnowheavy01_4bb8c642passthru_lod.nif

Edited June 2, 2019 by kojak747

[sheson]

Is that error repeatable?

[kojak747]

It is yes. Everything appears to work in game just fine though. 

[sheson]

Please check if 2.64 find the correct billboard as expected.

[kojak747]

That fixed it, thankyou so much! I've never been so happy to see a clean log:)

[kojak747]

I've finished updating all the billboards and after umpteen texture edits this is where I'm at. The only thing I'd like to improve if at all possible are the snow billboards. I'm using Billboard 2 with normals and hand edited the billboard textures. How do they look to you?

 

Good enough, or room for improvement?

[sheson]

The screenshots look great.

 

What they can't show is if the billboards transition well to the 3D LOD trees/the full models well or more importantly if they overall react better to the different weather/lighting unlike the "non-normal" billboards.