ACCEPTED Run For Your Lives (by Arthmoor)

[thommaal]

Got to hand it to Arthmoor, he gave you a pretty good response. Is he characterizing the test scenario correctly:

While Arthmoor's response is correct in describing the test scenario, it's besides the point -- though he could not have known that. Oqhansoloqo created such an artificial environment for his test AFTER we have told him to get rid of other mods and other saves, test this and that and so on.

 

This test isn't the starting point of Oqhansoloqo's critique but an outgrowth of the demands he fulfilled to verify that the cause for the problem is not something else.

 

I am quite angry with myself that I hadn't warned the poor guy to expect such an outcome with an artificial test environment.

 

It's a communication pattern that is well known and well established whenever an item is criticised that has meaning beyond the object level.

 

Anyway, sorry, Oqhansoloqo, should have warned you this could happen.

[oqhansoloqo]

I don't know why everyone is saying that I artificially set up the test.  Hardly...  Perhaps some people don't realize that the game starts spawning dragons on it's own 3 days after the returning to Balgruf after defeating Mirmulnir.  Do you honestly think it matters to the game's spawning mechanics that I snuck into the backdoor of Bleak Falls Barrow to grab the Dragonstone (and shout) so that I could give it Whiterun's wizard in order to allow the game to progress to Mirmulnir?  The game is an open-ended game that allows quests to be progressed when specific variables are met, and I met them, so it progressed.  And then that I waited 3 days for the first unnamed dragon to appear.  The dragon spawned near Riverwood, so I ran into Riverwood.  In another test it spawned near Honningbrew Meadery and attacked a farmer nearby who acted to same as any other melee-equipped NPC in the video.  Sorry, but these NPCs act the same exact way as the NPCs in my original non-test playthrough using Deadly Dragons with the extra spawn system turned OFF - which is supposed to work properly when done that way (according to other people), but it didn't.

 

I even described what was done in order to set up the test in the description.  I'm actually f'ing pissed off that I'm getting so many doubters that my tests are legit.  I put in a lot of time to try to show every which *bleeping* way that the mod is just not working properly with a properly set up installation.  Why is Arthmoor so against looking into the mod or even communicating to try to resolve the issue.  He is obviously still updating it from time to time and creates a number of good mods so why doesn't he seem to care that this one works right?  I mean, maybe he created the mod for himself and just decided to share it with other people, and if it works for them good, and if not, oh well.  It's obvious that it does not work for a LOT of people, so what's with the denial of that fact?  I don't get it.

 

It leads me to feel this way: I wish someone else put out a mod like this - someone who cared more about addressing bug reports.  Perhaps it's a minor fix too.  The fact that this mod is out there already is probably reason enough for someone else not to put out their own version of something similar.  That's basically how I feel about it.  I'd create the mod myself if I knew how, because unmodded NPC behavior in response to dragons cries for some kind of fix.  There's definitely a problem with something in this mod, and definitely a denial of that fact by the author - which is a bad combination altogether.

Edited April 29, 2014 by oqhansoloqo

[oqhansoloqo]

No.  Actually Arthmoor's summary is not correct - he didn't characterize the test scenario properly.  He's wrong, flat out.  Some of the facts about the way the game has to progress for the first unnamed dragon attack are not correct.  Dragon Rising was complete - I encountered Mirnulnir and he was killed.  Using the dragon shout for the first time is an "OPTIONAL" quest, which I didn't bother to do since I was trying to progress the game quickly.

[oqhansoloqo]

In Arthmoor's favor, apparently he has decided to look into and improve the way this mod detects dragon attacks.

Edited May 3, 2014 by oqhansoloqo

[Kuldebar]

In Arthmoor's favor, apparently he has decided to look into and improve the way this mod detects dragon attacks.

That's good news, and at the end of the day, that's really all you were probably expecting from him I would think.

 

I mean, obviously, RYL does have limitations on detecting Dragon Attacks. I've been closely watching what NPC's do in attacks now and there are a few of them that just cower without running into nearby designated shelter. But, I will say this, some of those dragons were from Belly Aches New Dragon Species and they had been aggroed from a somewhat distant spawn point and had followed me into town...custom towns like Aurora which appears to be on the crossroads of dragon central.

[oqhansoloqo]

Yes, you're right - as long as he is still working on/updating Skyrim mods, it is all I was expecting.

 

If he does end up changing the way it works, I wonder if his changes will end up allowing the intended RYL NPC behavior to work with custom dragons like those from other mods.  Or maybe even with mods that spawn multiple dragon attacks - like Deadly Dragons assault spawns.  All of this would be great and an extra plus though - all I really want to see is the mod work fully with the normal dragon system.  :)

Edited May 4, 2014 by oqhansoloqo

[Kuldebar]

Run For Your Lives by Arthmoor is available for testing and feed back:

 

QuoteQuoteQuote

 

Version 2.0

-----------

 

Complete replacement of the entire detection system. No longer uses wilderness encounter events. Dragons are now detected by combat state changes and when they land on available dragon perch objects in the area. This results in more reliable detection of dragons no matter how they spawn, including unusual events generated by mods.

When a citizen alias is filled, the AI pack will call for them to stop all combat activity prior to sending them to their safe harbor location. This should reduce the number of wannabe heroes.

In the event a citizen STILL decides to play hero, as long as they are protected by essential status, entering bleedout will result in them being instantly healed for up to 75 health so as to avoid a possible scenario where the NPC could die if the dragon was killed while they're bleeding out.

Added a condition check to the aliases to make sure they only fill with unique actors. This should eliminate accidentally picking up nearby hunters or other leveled list NPCs that shouldn't be getting dragged in.

Added a condition check to bar the player from filling an available citizen alias. Yep, for whatever reason, this happened in a few test runs.

All edits to vanilla quest records have been purged as they are no longer necessary. The altered vanilla quest scripts will revert back to their previous states.

 

Arthmoor:

 

I may as well make the same offer I sent oqhansoloqo 3 days ago. If you want to try that with the updated system, here's a link:

https://www.iguanadons.net/RunForYourLives.7z

Read over the updated readme, and take it for a spin. You should find this to be far more useful. It will dump a bunch of status updates in the Papyrus log during an attack so you can see what it's trying to do.

Anyone else is welcome to beat up on this too and then report back on the results. One way or another it's gonna replace what's up now so it would be nice to get more eyes on it

 

 

 

Question: Is there a version for the vampire mod as well?

 

Arthmoor:

 

No, because the vampire mod is already as good as it can get. I suspect most problems with it not working are due to load order conflicts that are blocking the DLC quests I needed to edit. Mainly because it hasn't changed much in awhile and folks only just recently started reporting it as failing.

When things like that happen, logic dictates the mod that hasn't changed isn't the one to be causing the problem.

 

Edited May 7, 2014 by Kuldebar

[oqhansoloqo]

Excellent - Thanks for the update, Kuldebar.  I'll try this out tomorrow when I get home from work.  I'll go and write to Arthmoor over on his Nexus page to thank him.

[TechAngel85]

Sounds like the community banded together to get an improved version created. STEP will adopt it as soon as it's released on Nexus.

[Kuldebar]

I'm suspecting some issues with this demo of the new RYL. I started two new games with it installed and LOOT ordered and I am having strange NPC problems that I have never encountered before.

 

NPC's start running for no apparent reason:

 

-I entered Riverwood from Helgen with Ralof, 4-5 townspeople started running about, some in circles while still talking through part of their scripted dialog (ie. bard and his mother)

 

-Upon entering Whiterun in my second game test, the conversation between the Warmaiden's Blacksmith and the Battleborn guy gets interrupted almost immediately mid sentence...they start running along with 6-7 other visible NPC's toward the Inn

 

In each of these cases, no dragons were involved.

[phryxolydian]

That's some weird stuff going on there! I'll stay away from this new version until it has been more thoroughly tested, by others..

[Kuldebar]

That's some weird stuff going on there! I'll stay away from this new version until it has been more thoroughly tested, by others..

Definitely need more testers :p

 

It was a good time for me because I was having some SkyRe issues  that I had to resolve so I wasn't in an active play-through. My test is by no means conclusive, but with out RYL Test version, I progressed through Riverwood to Whiterun without incident.

[oqhansoloqo]

Did you let Arthmoor know?  I'm about to test it myself right now.

 

EDIT:  Yes, I also started a new game with the new version of this mod.  As soon as I entered Whiterun for the first time everyone ran into the tavern.  No dragon around.  They stayed there until: I went into the tavern - then people started to exit.  I loaded and also noticed that after they were all in the tavern, I went to Dragonsreach to trigger the start of Dragon Rising.  When I came out the people were back outside already acting normal.

Edited May 8, 2014 by oqhansoloqo

[phryxolydian]

lol

It's because your character is such a f**ckin' bad-ass!!Everyone's afraid of you! Believe, believe, the Dragonborn comes!

Edited May 8, 2014 by phryxolydian

[Kuldebar]

oqhansoloqo, on 08 May 2014 - 2:19 PM, said:

Did you let Arthmoor know?  I'm about to test it myself right now.

 

EDIT:  Yes, I also started a new game with the new version of this mod.  As soon as I entered Whiterun for the first time everyone ran into the tavern.  No dragon around.

TBH I want to compare notes with others before going out and letting Arthmoor know...I've been down that road before...twice already. :p

 

My post was made to give a heads up for what someone else might also encounter, but since I don't have a President and ten PHD's to back up my experience, I'm content just to share information in a friendly environment. :) (in a take or or leave it, sort of way)

 

EDIT: I need more coffee, I entirely overlooked that you encountered the glitch as well!

 

Well, doesn't that beat all?

 

OK, go tell Arthmoor, Oqhan, you already have a rapport with him. :p

Edited May 8, 2014 by Kuldebar