Jump to content
fireundubh

Interactive Clutter (by fireundubh)

Recommended Posts

The FPS is still capped to 60FPS in the STEP solution which doesn't have the vanilla vsync enabled. This is done through ENBoost for best performance in the realm of smoothness during gameplay. At least, that's the low-down of it. There was a great deal of testing done before this solution as implemented. Thus far, no ill effects have been reported. I'd be interested if your mod still worked the same with this solution over the vanilla vsync.

Hmm, while looking for confirmation of this, I actually found ENB saying that "EnableVSync", when set to true, just honours the game's setting: https://enbseries.enbdev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2834 , so I'm not sure if that's still true or why he'd say that if that's not actually the case.

 

I was curious what "iPresentInterval" stands for and was wondering if ENB explained it; now I realize it's probably referring to "PresentationInterval" in D3DPRESENT_PARAMETERS: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb172588%28v=vs.85%29.aspx ...which makes me wonder if we can actually set "iPresentInterval" to different values, such as "2" for every 2nd V-BLANK (or perhaps "2" for "D3DPRESENT_LINEAR_CONTENT").

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was curious what "iPresentInterval" stands for and was wondering if ENB explained it; now I realize it's probably referring to "PresentationInterval" in D3DPRESENT_PARAMETERS: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb172588(v=vs.85).aspx ...which makes me wonder if we can actually set "iPresentInterval" to different values, such as "2" for every 2nd V-BLANK (or perhaps "2" for "D3DPRESENT_LINEAR_CONTENT").

Try it, but I bet it's just a binary bit flag. Edited by fireundubh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fireundubh: Yeah my point was not so much that it was a handcart.. more the fact that when you want to pick up something else you end up with situations where you pick up something else. In this particular case then everything in the handcart would drop down and scatter all over the place... in the odd case also killing you due to railgun lettuce heads.. but that can happen! :) 

 

 

As for vsync on or off.. it does not really matter. The more objects that are physics interactable the higher the case for issues.. the table with all the things on is a great example. Even if nobody is moving ANYTHING you can find objects that slightly vibrate, etc since the objects when they first spawned... had a slight height over the mesh. 

 

Also my favorite when using realistic force is that a mammoth steps on a mudcrap and gets thrown into the stratosphere.... always look hilarious. These sorts of issues can just happen due to weird collisions between meshes.. and the physics going "divide by zero ... BOOM" 

 

Another example is when you have a dead corpse and run into it and damage/kill yourself. Again just because... physics! Guess the overall solution to that would be to edit the objects so they did not have collision boxes but that would probably remove even more from realism.. and most likely make it difficult for them to stay anywhere. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for vsync on or off.. it does not really matter. The more objects that are physics interactable the higher the case for issues..

I had an issue where objects would fly all over the place when I walked into a cell. I could stand still next to a wall with nothing nearby and hear a sword clanging against the wall as though I was kicking it. I quit the game and restarted. Same problem. Exited again. Guess what? iPresentInterval was 0. I set iPresentInterval to 1 and reloaded. No problem."Too many physics-enabled meshes" isn't a problem, given the fact that nearly every object in the game, including actors, has a physics-enabled mesh.There's nothing wrong with using third-party graphics hacks or modifying the .ini settings, but you should know when a problem is your doing and not some poor mod whose meshes are the same physics-enabled meshes that have always been in the game. I've been using More Interactive Items without incident since it went up on the Nexus in 2011.PS. I rewrote my reply to be less hostile but I think it still sounds hostile. Sorry. Edited by fireundubh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I did not take you as hostile at all. It is a nice little debate imo! :) 

 

But yeah the problem you seem to describe is the one where you walk in to a room and you got poltergeist action all over.. that will be solved with vsync. 

 

The issues I am talking about is just the small things that simply happen because of physics... such as the table with everything jittering all over. Just happens because for some reason the velocity vectors cannot just be 0 across the board.  An annoying thing about this is that all the extra calculations because of this actually cost performance! However this happens in just about any game that have physics...infinitely bouncing objects that is. 

 

But anyways yes most objects have physics enabled.. but they are also static objects which means that collision will never have any influence on them.. they are essentially just wall extensions put there to break up the monotomy of the level. 

 

Once they get altered to be moveable etc then you get all these issues that can happen... they do not have to happen, but they can. And the more objects that collide etc. the more issues you are going to get. And if you have vsync off then even more due to how the physics calculations are frame dependent. 

 

Mass is especially weird with collisions.. like the case with the mammoth being sent flying. (In fact when I need a good giggle I normally just do the spawn 20 mammoth and see them go flying since something about their mesh just sends them flying ending up in trees and what not.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6d8mmhre3bv7kn9/mammothscanfly.jpg

 

Not the best example but they fly, and also as a bonus point sent the dragon corpse flying all over!

 

 

However all that aside (I actually enjoy the odd physics freakout.. it is mostly just hilarious) then my main issue with the mod was that since all the clutter items serve no purpose then they just got annoying after a while. 

If in combination with frostfall you could chop a chart into firewood, and smelt down pots n pans etc. then they would have a purpose and perhaps not be as annoying... but moving them around just for the heck of it... well then I personally just prefer statics... less issues overall, and more smooth gameplay! 

 

Hope that all came out in a non hostile manner! :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However all that aside (I actually enjoy the odd physics freakout.. it is mostly just hilarious) then my main issue with the mod was that since all the clutter items serve no purpose then they just got annoying after a while.If in combination with frostfall you could chop a chart into firewood, and smelt down pots n pans etc. then they would have a purpose and perhaps not be as annoying... but moving them around just for the heck of it... well then I personally just prefer statics... less issues overall, and more smooth gameplay!  Hope that all came out in a non hostile manner! :)

Interactive Clutter will have breakdown recipes. There are already scrimshaw recipes for Hunterborn. If you use AutoHarvest in a cave filled with bones, you'll have so many bones to make Bits of Bone. I think the Detached Eyeball in hagraven lairs will also produce a random eye ingredient from a leveled list, but it probably doesn't work.
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You had me at "Detached Eyeball" ("it's not the taste, it's the consistency" oh, just threw up in my mouth a little).

 

I was thinking along the Hunterborn lines myself (since you already included a patch) and cave clutter specifically. I just used AS-LAL to begin the game as Forsworn and being able to create various bone weapons earlier rather than later (to hunt more animals and create more bone gear, rinse repeat) seemed very appealing. I've moved past early beginnings in my current playthrough, but I just cleared at Orphan Rock so I can check out if that Detached Eyeball will also produce a random eye ingredient from a leveled list tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe that could be the issue with that cart thing floating about somebody mentioned.

Negative on this, Dub. From what I've been able to gather, that  particular issue has to do with character physics in particular. IA v7 added support for Breast and Butt bouncing enabled body replacers, and that altered the gravity settings (I'm just repeating stuff from the IA Postings on Nexus, so I may be getting this slightly wrong). As a result, HAVOK didn't know how to handle collisions between NPCs and the cart, resulting in episodes like Red's 'Mammoths can fly' scenario.

 

On subject, I have to kind of go in with Tech on this one - on the surface, it seems like a great idea for realism and the like, but the physics side of it (combined with the picking up a cart when all I wanted was a head of cabbage issue) makes this one an easy mod to pass on. No offense to you or your work - I still can't make head or tail of the CK, so you are still light years beyond my ability.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On subject, I have to kind of go in with Tech on this one - on the surface, it seems like a great idea for realism and the like, but the physics side of it (combined with the picking up a cart when all I wanted was a head of cabbage issue) makes this one an easy mod to pass on. No offense to you or your work - I still can't make head or tail of the CK, so you are still light years beyond my ability.

The "physics problem" is basically ********. Sorry. More physics-enabled objects doesn't mean worse physics overall. It might mean more opportunities for physics problems, but so does Immersive Armors, Immersive Weapons, Immersive Patrols, Populated Cities, anything that adds physics-enabled meshes to the world.If you're going to blame someone, blame Bethesda; that is, if those problems even exist outside screwing with vsync, using third-party hacks, or not using SMIM meshes.As for picking up a cart instead of a cabbage, maybe try aiming first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correction: Aiyen descended from Aetherius to bring the gift of flight to mortal mammoths.

 

Excellent find on the "cart flipping issue", note to self: do not install hdt physics until after Helgen intro.

 

Re- crafting recipes;

Human Remains (various) to bone meal: by Sithis that's genius, I can be my own "cleaner".

Elk Horn, Deer Skull: perhaps allow conversion to ingredient: large / small antlers instead of bone meal?

... if that's how moon sugar is made consider me rehabilitated ...

otherwise: brilliant!

 

Re- "cart grabbing issue" saves me chopping firewood, just grab the cabbage first, cart after.

Edited by redirishlord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole discussion sometimes is why I wish there was a mod that had an MCM menu enabling you to disable and enable different kinds of clutter ability to pick up or not.

 

Perhaps that's what this mod needs. An MCM menu to configure what can be picked up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Human Remains (various) to bone meal: by Sithis that's genius, I can be my own "cleaner".Elk Horn, Deer Skull: perhaps allow conversion to ingredient: large / small antlers instead of bone meal?... if that's how moon sugar is made consider me rehabilitated ...otherwise: brilliant!

Okay, I changed the outputs of:- Deer Skull to Small Antlers- Horned Deer Skull to Large Antlers- Detached Eyeball to Eye of Sabre Cat 

This whole discussion sometimes is why I wish there was a mod that had an MCM menu enabling you to disable and enable different kinds of clutter ability to pick up or not.Perhaps that's what this mod needs. An MCM menu to configure what can be picked up.

Only way I see that working is if a) someone else wrote the MCM menu because f that and b) I replaced MSTT references with ACTIvators.The activators would have a script that basically says:
event on activate	if this activator's associated object is enabled in the MCM menu		loot associated object;end event;event on load	if this activator's associated object is disabled in the MCM menu		block activation;end event;
But then we'd get back to the problem of those objects not being able to be grabbed or moved around. Edited by fireundubh
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oustanding my friend! and I'll ground the bones from my DB contracts to make my bread, I mean bone meal.

Really glad you posted on Immersive Clutter & Master of Disguise, both coincidentally compliment my current character quite nicely.

I'll be restarting my Companion/Stormcloak soon, so MoD should provide exciting depth there as well, and he's sure to be landed gentry so you can never have too many iron ingots for home improvement projects.

 

Re- configuring what you pick up, I'm thinking you're best served using the primary safety from your firearm. That's your index finger btw (& yes, I am a smart ass, but I mean well).

:;):

Edited by redirishlord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Physics.... it works! Just not in Skyrim! :D 

 

Anyways jokes aside!

Then yeah adding more objects does not make the physics worse...up to a point. More modern games then skyrim still have issues with physics causing all sorts of issues.. from harmless funny bugs, to gamebreaking performance crashing issues. (Who would have thought that eternally bouncing ball was the cause of all those issues!) 

However just like SMIM and SFO and god knows how many other mods that add more (detailed) models to the game then it all adds up... eventually the engine just have to say stop! So saying that physics problems are "********" is perhaps a bit over the top since all of our installs are different. Ofc any mod on its own in the vanilla game is most likely not going to be the proverbial drop.... until later! 

 

 

Anyways all of that aside then on to trying to make this more awesome! 

 

Looking over your list then it seems to me that the amount of firewood is rather... excessive.. as I recall then firewood if you harvest it is what 4 pieces at most ? and it has a weight of what 4 per piece? (sorry if I am outdated on this!) 

 

But it just strikes me as one thing that perhaps should be toned down a little bit! In general since there is so MUCH clutter then what you can get from it should also be scaled down in comparison. Perhaps even add a feature of failing to get anything from an item. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • By Omniguous
      the arguments '-iknowwhatimdoing' and '-allowmasterfilesedit' should NOT be entrenched into the STEP guide.
      for starters: nothing you do with xEdit actually requires the latter one.
      and the first is NOT meant 'simply for disabling a single pop-up': it does much more and the user is /meant/ to -ahem- KNOW WHAT IT IS and WHAT THEY DO. hence, the name.
      This applies to SSE, as well.
      thanks.
    • By sheson
      This is a beta of [FNV|FO3|FO4|FO4VR|TES5|SSE|TES5VR|ENDERAL|ENDERALSE]LODGen/Edit with terrain LOD meshes and textures generation.
      This is for experienced mod authors and users that know how to use xEdit, xLODGen or DynDOLOD already.
      Installation and Setup
      Download
      xLODGen beta 80 - based on 4.1.3g
      Unzip into a dedicated folder outside of any game and Steam folders or special Windows folders like Program Files.
      (Pro users can merge with existing xEdit installation. Make sure to overwrite older LODGen.exe/LODGenx64.exe TexConv.exe/TexConvx64.exe in Edit Scripts. All other files with the same filenames are the same as the latest version of xEdit.)
      Rename xLODGen.exe to [game mode]LODGen.exe (TES5LODGen.exe for example) or start with command line parameter -fnv, -fo3, -fo4, -fo4vr, -tes5, tes5vr, -sse, -enderal, -enderalse
      Use -o:"c:\OutputPath\" command line parameter to change where files are generated to, default is the game folder. Use this if a mod manager with a virtual file system (like MO) is used.
      Do not generate into any game or any mod manager folders that are part (direct or indirect) of the virtual file system.
      Requirements
      Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable for Visual Studio 2015, 2017 and 2019 - Required by LODGen.exe/LODGenx64.exe and Texconv.exe/Texconvx64.exe. Get matching platform x86/x64 depending on which xLODGen.exe (x86) or xLODGenx64.exe (x64) is used.
      RTFM and Share Results
      See the included Skyrim-Occlusion-Readme.txt for a brief explanation of the Skyrim TVDT Occlusion data generation. Read the hints that are shown when the mouse pointer rests on a setting. Ask specific questions or give feedback in the dedicated Skyrim TVDT - Occlusion Data thread.
      See the included Terrain-LOD-Readme.txt for a brief explanation of the settings for terrain LOD generation. Read the hints that are shown when the mouse pointer rests on a setting. Ask specific questions about terrain LOD in this thread for a more in-depth explanation if required and share feedback (with screenshots) about results or problems.
      These tools generate LOD meshes and textures "exactly" like CK, but not like the meshes and textures which are shipping with the games (they are often manually edited).
      However, these tools provide more options and higher resolutions (use the x64 version if there are memory errors because you believe you require 4k or higher) and can be updated to add more useful features and options.
      I did some testing in the different games, but finding the best combinations of options and settings requires lots of testing and are a matter of personal opinion and which game is used, the load order, mods, even different worldspaces probably.
      That means, I am only able to give generic guidelines and hints to send you off to find and test for yourself and share your results. My main interested is that generations works correctly and without problems for now.
      Check out the thread xLODGen Terrain Settings Compare. Also refer to any modding guide which has a list of relevant mods close to your load order.
      The object and tree LOD generation is the same as the current versions of xEdit / xLODGen. Refer to their respective descriptions and explanations.
      Obviously, users of Skryim/Enderal/Skyrim SE/Skyrim VR/EnderalSE continue to use the easier and more comprehensive DynDOLOD for drastically improved object and tree LOD generation and only use xLODGen for terrain LOD (and maybe Occlusion) generation.
      First Time
      Here are suggestion to start without going crazy and that should be quick enough to generate:
      Set quality of meshes for LOD4 to 5 and then +5 for each next level. Or just set levels 8/16/32 to 10.
      Check protect cell borders (yes it fixes the ugly terrain drops at outer cell borders that still exist in Fallout 4).
      Use the max vertices setting only if you want to hard limit max file size.
      In Skyrim Special Edition or Skyrim VR, if you notice terrain briefly flickering when new areas are loading in, set [Display] bEnableLandFade=0 in Skyrim.INI
      Set Optimize Unseen to off for LOD4 for first generation. Start experimenting with a value of 550 with a quality setting of 10 or lower for LOD32 (used for map) and compare coastlines and file size to other settings.
      To quickly generate terrain LOD meshes just for the map, check only terrain LOD Meshes, check the Specific Chunk checkbox and set drop down to 32. Leave SW fields empty for complete map or set SW cell coordinates to same values as a *.btr filename to test a specific area with lots of water, river etc.
      Set texture sizes to 512 for a start. Larger sizes and large world spaces will take a considerable time (like 15 to 30 minutes or more easily). Each higher resolution means quadruple the work.
      Use DXT1 for diffuse and 565 (DXT5 if on Windows 7) for normal maps. If generating for Skyrim Special Edition use BC7. Uncheck mipmaps, raise steepness and Bake normal maps.
      For now, leave the Brightness, Contrast and Gamma at 0 and 1.0 respectively. It seems that only Skyrim CK and Skyrim SE CK are manipulating the intensity of the textures to adjust for the noise.dds and the god awful "improved" snow shader of Skyrim SE (just turn that thing off, really). If textures seem too dark in the game, brighten the noise.dds instead or vice versa. That way you can get perfectly matching LOD textures that look just like the textures in the loaded cells. For Skyrim a good average color of the noise texture seems to be around #C0. See below for a couple noise texture downloads.
      If you want to test larger texture sizes, use the chunk option to limit the number of textures that need to be generated. For example, check [x] Specific chunk, leave the drop down empty and set WS to the lower left cell coordinate of an 32x32 area, like 0, 0. It will then generate all textures up to 31,31. Not all worldspaces have their origin at 0,0 so you will have to check already generated meshes/texture filenames for their lower left coordinates.
      Questions and Feedback
      Obliviously anything related to terrain LOD should be posted in this thread.
      Posts related to Occlusion should be made here.
      Recommended Optionals
      TES5-Terrain-Tamriel.esm, SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm
      TES5-Terrain-Tamriel-Extend.esm, SSE-Terrain-Tamriel-Extend.esm - These extend the sea of ghost further to the north (see screenshots)
      SSE-Terrain-Tamriel-Full-Extend.esm - Entire map from -96,-96 to 95,96 with northern ocean extension. Useful for mod authors.
      Put in game data folder obviously. Adds back terrain for Skyrim (Tamriel worldspace) at the outer edges so there is no missing terrain meshes/textures when generating terrain LOD for Skyrim.
      Load as early with lowest priority as possible, so that any other plugins overwriting or adding land records or cells with the same coordinates take precedence.
      Only required to be loaded when generating terrain LOD. No harm done when loaded in-game but typically the player can not get close to these areas. There are no effects outside the far away added cells.
      Noise
      Single color flat noise, Adjusted vanilla noise, HD Terrain Noise Texture SE
      Examples for Skyrim. Install to game folder like any other texture mod. The noise texture is applied in-game on top of terrain LOD textures, so no effect for LOD generation.
      Only the red channel is used in case the textures is not a grey channel format. MipMaps are ignored. The textures is tiled 3x3 per LOD quad, e.g. for LOD level 4, the noise texture is repeated 3 times to cover 4 cells, for LOD level 8, the noise texture is repeated 3 times to cover 8 cells and so on.
      Test-Terrain-Tamriel.7z
      For testing terrain LOD distances. Plain color terrain LOD textures for Tamriel with coordinates for every LOD quad. Green for LOD 4, yellow for LOD8, blue for LOD 16 and red for LOD 32.
    • By z929669
      Discussion topic:
      Embers XD by mindflux
      Wiki Link
      Install Lite version with the Lite beta update file. I also used the "High Quality" option for Embers XD rather than "Optimized"
      Use EmbersHD.esp plugin from main file (chose for compatibility in chaning from Enbers HD ... not sure if prudent) Set Embers XD.esp plugin from Lite beta update file as optional plugin in MO (It looks like Embers XD.esp (v2.2.3) = EmbersHD.esp (v2.2.1)) Install all add-ons (need screens for magic effect) Do not install any patches Place after Embers HD in load order (disable Embers HD and Inferno to match the Embers XD screens) NOTE: Embers XD is ENB compatible but performs nicely without ENB.
      Campfires: Inferno + Embers HD (Step) > Embers XD (orange/red flames)

       
      Sconces: Inferno + Embers HD (Step) > Embers XD (orange/red flames)

       
      Torches: Ultimate HD Torch (Step) > Inferno + Embers HD > Embers XD (orange/red flames)

      NOTE: Torch flames for Ultimate HD Torch and Inferno + Embers HD lick very fast. Embers XD flames lick more slowly and behave more realistically.
       
      Forge: Inferno + Embers HD (Step) > Embers XD (orange/red flames)

      NOTE: FPS gain with Embers XD ... need someone to confirm.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.