Seemingly Random CTD

[RoboticWater]

I just started a new Skyrim character following the Skyrim Revisited: Legendary Edition guide and the Installing ASIS with Skyre guide and I've had a few CTDs. Both happened after about an hour of play (I checked the papyrus logs) and don't seem to have any sort of consistency to them. I've done as much conflict resolution as I could and I cleaned every esp LOOT recommended.

 

I created a python script to find errors in my papyrus log and here's what it found on my last session:

(# of occurrences : Error)

[spoiler=Papyrus Errors]

8 [06/10/2014 - 05:33:03PM] Error: Unable to call Dispel - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type

 

4 [06/10/2014 - 05:42:34PM] Error: Unable to call GetSex - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type

 

4 [06/10/2014 - 05:32:40PM] Error: Property NPCTilma on script QF_SkyforgeSteelWeaponsQuest_02003DEF attached to SkyforgeSteelWeaponsQuest (AC440015) cannot be bound because <NULL form> (0003BDE9) is not the right type

 

13 [06/10/2014 - 05:32:40PM] Error: Property MGRitual04 on script uskpretroactive131script attached to USKPRetroactive131 (0201906F) cannot be bound because MGRitual04 (000CD987) is not the right type

 

13 [06/10/2014 - 05:32:40PM] Error: Property ExclusiveCellList on script avquestscript attached to AVQuestScript_qust (EF000D6D) cannot be initialized because the value is the incorrect type

 

25 [06/10/2014 - 05:32:40PM] Error: Property OBIS on script ObisFactions attached to OBIS_SPAWN (93018DAA) cannot be bound because OBIS (930177AF) is not the right type

 

1 [06/10/2014 - 06:03:59PM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForSingleUpdate - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type

 

132 [06/10/2014 - 05:32:47PM] Error: Cannot be an ally of a None faction

 

132 [06/10/2014 - 05:32:47PM] Error: Cannot call SetAlly() on a None object, aborting function call

 

 

 

The final entry: [06/10/2014 - 06:21:34PM] VM is thawing...

 

The final error entry: [06/10/2014 - 06:14:00PM] Error: Cannot be an ally of a None faction

 

Final entry on previous session: [06/09/2014 - 10:09:18PM] Warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp10"

stack:

[Active effect 1 on  (000B7F6C)].DraugrFXScript.OnGetUp() - "draugrfxscript.psc" Line 64

 

As far as I can tell, those two instances of crashing are unrelated (other than the fact that they are interior locations but I think that's just coincidental). 

 

Though I use a high quality ENB, I doubt that performance issues could be the cause. I don't see any noticeable lag/stuttering and I keep my rig well cooled.

 

I'd like to do more testing but as I said, it takes about an hour for the crash to happen and I don't know any way to cause the crash myself. So my question is:

a) Do you know how to fix this

b) If not, are there any tools which could help my find what's causing the crash.

 

[spoiler=Specs]i7 3770k @4.3Ghz2 GTX 760s SLI12 GB RAMWindows 8.1

 

Again, I use LOOT so the order may seem off to you if you use BOSS.

[spoiler=Load Order]Skyrim.esmUpdate.esmUnofficial Skyrim Patch.espDawnguard.esmUnofficial Dawnguard Patch.espHearthFires.esmUnofficial Hearthfire Patch.espDragonborn.esmUnofficial Dragonborn Patch.espSkyrim Project Optimization.esmFalskaar.esmWyrmstooth.espApachiiHair.esmApachiiHairFemales.esmXFLMain.esmApachiiHairMales.esmFantasy Soundtrack Project.espHighResTexturePack01.esp (Disabled because of Mod Organizer)HighResTexturePack02.esp (Disabled because of Mod Organizer)HighResTexturePack03.esp (Disabled because of Mod Organizer)Cutting Room Floor.espAMatterOfTime.espSkyUI.espDual Sheath Redux.espStaticMeshImprovementMod-DungeonsCliffsIceSkirts.espAshRocks.espBrows.espCelticMusic.espCeltic Music and FSP No Vanilla Patch.espAchieveThat.esp83Willows_101BUGS_V4_HighRes.espRun For Your Lives.espNo_stretching.esp (Disabled because of Mod Organizer)Beards.espXFLConfig.espAtlas Compass Tweaks.espLore Weapon Expansion - Goldbrand.espSerana.espTSOnTheSpot.espinfernoadze.espTradeBarter.espConvenient Horses.espUIExtensions.espELFX - Exteriors.espDr_BandolierDG.espInsanity's Sorrow.espDeadlyDragons.espAuto Unequip Ammo.espEpisodeParallax.espFootprints.espFootprints - Ash.espLordOfWar_TW2.espTairenSoulLayered.espHigh Level Enemies - Falskaar.espAHZmoreHUD.espBetter Dynamic Snow.espStaticMeshImprovementMod-ShackRoofFixesBDS.espMoss Rocks.espMoss Rocks_DB.espEnhancedLightsandFX.espELFX - Dawnguard.espORM-Arvak.espORM Convenient Alsvid.espFreckleMania.espRaceMenu.espRaceMenuOverlays.espRaceMenuPlugin.espCrystalSuncombo.espGlimmer.espSRTODragonbornParallax.espFantasySoundtrackProjectCombatMusic.espELFX - Dragonborn.espSkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.espStaticMeshImprovementMod-FurnitureChestSnowFix.espStaticMeshImprovementMod-DragonbornTernFix.espSulfurRocks.espTSGLTR.espTSLCF1.espTSLCFbeta.espTSLCFgamma.espThe Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.espTheEyesOfBeauty.espWEBS extended.espWeapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.espSkyRe_Main.espAOS.espWetandCold.espWetandCold - Ashes.espdD - Enhanced Blood Main.espDeadlySpellImpacts.espImmersive Sounds - Footsteps.espImmersive Sounds - Weaponry.espAOS2_EBT Patch.espAOS Patch.espISFootsteps AOS Patch.espAOS2_WetandCold Patch.espRelightingSkyrim.espFS_UltimateAssortment.espRealisticWaterTwo.espAOS2_RealisticWaterTwo Patch.espWatercolor_for_ENB_RWT.espFalskaar SkyRe Faction Patch.espClothing & Clutter Fixes.espComplete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.espSDO Full-LOD - The Morthal Swamp Complete.espImmersive Sounds - Aural Assortment.espSkyrim Immersive Creatures.espRealisticWaterTwo - Wyrmstooth.espSkyrimCoinReplacerRedux.espHigh Level Enemies.espHigh Level Enemies - Dawnguard.espSkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB + FS + WT.espRealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Falskaar.espRealisticWaterTwo - Falskaar.espOBIS.espOBISDB.espSkyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.espRemove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version - NH.espRelighting Skyrim - Update.espHigh Level Enemies - Dragonborn.espSkyRe_EncounterZones.espSFO - Expanded Diversity.espCCOR_IS_Aural_Assortment_Patch.espISAA SkyRe Patch.espCCOR_SkyRe_Patch.espMighty Magick AIO.espImmersive Sounds - Magic.espBetter Vampires ML.espCloaks - Dawnguard.espMighty Magick - SkyRe compatibility patch.espISMagic SkyRe Patch.espMM Overrides.espSkyRe_CraftingFix.espIS-AA Complete Crafting Overhaul Patch.espWhen Vampires Attack.espXFLDialogue.espkimono's witcher silver swords.espXFLPanel.espaMidianBorn_ContentAddon.espLore Weapon Expansion.espHothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.espBFT Ships and Carriages.espCCOR_IA7_Patch.espBDYEB.espCCO_WAFTrueWeapons_Patch.espCCO_SIC_Patch.espCloaks.esp1nivWICCloaksCRAFT.espLore Weapon Expansion - Daedric Crescent.espRealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.espPoint The Way.espSMIM-FarmhouseFlickeringFix.espAtlas Legendary.espSFO - Dragonborn.espSDO Full-LOD - Whiterun Trundra Creeks.espUnique Grasses_clippingfixer.espStaticMeshImprovementMod-ShackRoofFixesDragonborn.espFSP - Dawnguard Edition.espFSP - Unique Towns & Locations.espDr_Bandolier.espLore Weapon Expansion - Relics of the Crusader.espSkyRe_StandingStones.espProvincial Courier Service.espSkyRe_Races.espCCOR_SkyRe_Races_Patch.espSneak Tools.espStaticMeshImprovementMod-ShackRoofFixes.espRealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Wyrmstooth.espSkyrim Flora Overhaul.espUnique Grasses.espSkyRe_EnemyAI.espXFLPlugins.espPilgrimsDelight.espThe Paarthurnax Dilemma.espHoldBorderBanners.espGildergreen Regrown.espSDO Full-LOD - Giant Campfires.espSkyRe_Combat.espApocalypse - The Spell Package.espForgottenMagic_Redone.espHavenBag.espApocalypse - SkyRe Compatibility Patch.espDummy.espHLE-CoS Patch.espaMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.espAOS2_WAF Patch.espUnique Uniques.espAOS2_SkyRe Patch.espUnique Unique's_Skyre Patch.espCCOR_aMidianBorn_Patch.espdD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.espdD-DG-DB-Immersive Creatures EBT Patch.espdD-No Spinning Death Animation.espiHUD.espspelleraser.espAlternate Start - Live Another Life.espSR Conflict Resolution.espBashed Patch, 0.espPost Proc Patch.espASIS-Dependency.espPre ReProccer WAFR IA7 UU aMidianSS Content Addon Patch.espASIS.espAutomatic Variants.espReProccer.espDual Sheath Redux Patch.espPost ReProccer Fixes CCOR IA7 UU aMidianSS Content Addon Patch.espPostASISPatch.espqotsafans Miscellaneous ReProccer + Destruction Tweak Atronach 50 Patch.espReProccerDragonborn.esp

 

 

I also use SSME.

Edited June 11, 2014 by RoboticWater

[Quinnbeast]

I've previously narrowed down my own random CTDs to how my rig is handling the big texture packs. Try not to rule anything out until you absolutely know. It may not be a performance issue in the typical sense - we all know that most games running on a low-end machine will simply run badly, but often without any crashes. Planetside 2 on my old machine could hit 10fps in the beta test, but it never crashed once. It's more how a heavily modded Skyrim can simply start to show some natural limitations on a given system. I found that once my VRAM use was up into the upper 3/4 on my 660ti (approx 1.7gb out of 2gb), the CTDs would creep in without actually hitting the upper limit. Having a 'perfect' and correct mod installation without any conflicts doesn't guarantee a working game. 'Tis the nature of the beast.Out of curiosity, trying deactivating the likes of Flora Overhaul / SRO / Serious HD or any of the other big texture packs, and carry on playing for a day or so. Deactivate the ENB if needed too. My game became 100% stable once I did this, so either texture optimization or simply deactivating a few texture heavy mods was a viable fix. For me though, my crashes were almost entirely external, where I would expect VRAM use to spike from time to time. Still, it might help you rule out one possibility.You could also trying deactivating your mods that add/modify NPCs, such as SIC, OBIS and ASIS.On a completely personal note, I've recently invested in a 780GTX, and this runs everything I can possibly throw at it without batting an eyelid, including a mods list + ENB that would make my 660ti CTD frequently and at random. That's not to say my 660ti was insufficient or faulty, just that a modded Skyrim can be a flaky and temperamental swine.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Quinnbeast

[RoboticWater]

Yea, I was afraid of that.

 

I ran a session with Skyrim performance monitor and found that my VRAM usage was pretty high. I guess loading all those textures over a long period of time would eventually break the game.

 

What's odd though, (and I probably should have mentioned this earlier) is that I had a save that accumulated about 30hrs with almost the exact same mod list and had no crashing issues until later on when I guess I added too much. After that I started from scratch with this one (re-install, etc.) so there shouldn't be any overlap.

 

Now I'm just going through and deactivating mods (including texture/mesh replacers) which I added beyond the Skyrim Revisited guide, but as I said the crash only seems to happen after an hour so it'll take a while to find a culprit.

[Kuldebar]

If SSME/equivalent is properly configured and the ENBoost settings are configured to handle texture loads (all this assumes no bad RAM/or other hardware issues) ...the CTD is most assuredly Papyrus/mod related.

 

In the past, before I nailed down some of the usual suspects, I had more or less logic defying CTD's on occasion. I have no problem children (ctd) mods anymore out of my 185...this will all likely change if I start building in more mods.

 

Since everything is relative: when you start with 2 CTD's every 70 minutes to having none in 5 weeks (post Sheson) you start getting more sensitive to when the CTD's do start to occur...because they are abnormal and even more annoying than when we were quick saving every 3 minutes.

 

I always find getting rid of THAT ONE mod usually does the trick. That mod might be popular, even award winning, but it might also be the straw, the golden straw that broke Skyrim's back, or at least gave it a slipped disk.

 

Script load matters, it varies from PC to PC, but it matters. When the number is up, the crap hits the desktop.

 

Some mods, while ingenious are just way to script; with a few notable exceptions, I tend to avoid them like the plague. As for textures and meshes: (assuming the mesh isn't bad which can cause CTD's) it's very unlikely to be the cause of the CTD, especially if you have ENBoost/SSME/Sheson configured and running on a machine with 8GB or more RAM.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Kuldebar

[Aiyen]

A bad mesh will always cause instant CTD... faulty meshes are annoying to try to find. I currently have one in one of my loading screens.. still need to figure out which one! 

 

Anyways as to random CTD´s ... when using ASIS and SkyRe you should just never expect a CTD free experience.... ASIS is just not wise to use on large complex lists. 

 

Assuming you got 8Gb+ of RAM and 2Gb of VRAM then a properly setup memory management setup will allow you to run stable with almost full 2k everywhere... almost. 

Never look on your VRAM usage alone as an indicator of anything... it is just bad practice. In cases where you do not have enough VRAM you will almost always have stuttering and framerate drops due to bottlenecks before CTD´s. 

 

But again.. I would start with ASIS removal and then work from there... the features it bring is simply not worth the issues it causes. 

[Quinnbeast]

Kuldebar - My own system specs are an i5 3570K, 8GB RAM, Samsung 840Pro SSD, MSI 780GTX. Quite interesting to note that you wouldn't expect highres textures to cause CTDs; maybe I need to go back and check my SSME/ENBoost settings. It was quite noticeable how the stability (regarding those occasional CTDs) changed when moving from the 660 to the 780, even though the older GPU has otherwise been rock solid since it was installed. Maybe it just doesn't want to play Skyrim anymore :/

 

Never look on your VRAM usage alone...

 

Alone? Of course not. As you say, it has some uses if you're trying to smooth out some frame rate issues, but anecdotally, a reduction of CTDs seemed to accompany a leaner selection of textures in my case. I guess it might have been a driver or hardware issue (or memory management), but it worked for me all the same.

 

And yeah, ASIS turned a previous installation of mine in an entertaining mess.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Quinnbeast

[Kuldebar]

Aiyen, on 11 Jun 2014 - 2:58 PM, said:

Anyways as to random CTD´s ... when using ASIS and SkyRe you should just never expect a CTD free experience.... ASIS is just not wise to use on large complex lists. 

 

I was going to say that! I skirted around it with THAT ONE (or two) mod rant. :)

 

Quinnbeast, on 11 Jun 2014 - 3:01 PM, said:

Kuldebar - My own system specs are an i5 3570K, 8GB RAM, Samsung 840Pro SSD, MSI 780GTX. Quite interesting to note that you wouldn't expect highres textures to cause CTDs; maybe I need to go back and check my SSME/ENBoost settings. It was quite noticeable how the stability (regarding those occasional CTDs) changed when moving from the 660 to the 780, even though the older hard has otherwise been rock solid since it was installed. Maybe it just doesn't want to play Skyrim anymore :/

I'd never say never, but generally, no. Oversized textures will slow you down or simply fail to load, but not really cause CTD's by themselves. In pre-Sheson days high textures contributed to the overall burden on the poor memory allocation since ENB was using system memory to "enhance" VRAM operations. But, that's largely a problem of the past if you use the memory patch.

 

Also, by hi-res I hope you mean 2k, and a few 4k, just to clarify. I run a mix of 1k, 2k and some scatterings of 4k on my 1GB 6850. In the past when I tried to use a lot of primarily 2k/4k I got black player character faces and slow LOD popping...can't really tie any CTD's to texture usage in my experience.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Kuldebar

[RoboticWater]

For clarification, my texture mods are mostly 1K-2K with a very occasional 4K (I think I only have a 4K skin texture). Of course, skin has a tendency to follow my character around so that could be contributing to memory problems. I also Run Skyrim from an SSD.

 

I understand all of your concerns with ASIS and Skyre. I've dealt with my fair share of CTDs with this mod list on my previous run through, but they usually occurred after 3-5 hrs (and at that point I assumed the universe was just telling me to stop playing). Whenever I got CDTs on my old playthrough all the dynamic patches and gameplay mods went first, and they were consistently found innocent (at least of my immediate problems).

 

As for mesh issues; I can't see why there would be one. If I reload the game in the same exact area, I can continue without issue (until about 50 minutes later), and one of my CDTs was in the Haven Bag, which I return to frequently. Unless the mesh only appears occasionally, or only acts up after the game has been running.

 

But luckily, I think I might have found the problem. I forgot to close Firefox when playing those 2 times I played and apparently it takes up an abnormally large amount of memory. I closed it for another run and I was able to play for about 2 hours without crashing. Of course, 2 hours isn't enough to guarantee that Firefox is the culprit, so I'll keep testing.

 

If my theory proves to be incorrect I think I'll try removing my sound mods. I'm relatively certain I fixed all the conflicts between AOS and Immersive Sounds but there could easily still be an error hiding away. If that doesn't work I'll remove ASIS. Hopefully, it doesn't have to come to the point where I have to remove Skyre (Skyrim really isn't that fun to me without it).

 

But regardless of what happens, I'd like to thank everyone for their help.

(Also sorry if the Firefox thing was the problem. Kind of a stupid reason to bring out the cavalry)

[Glanzer]

I've had a situation where I had random CTDs that were eventually cleared up by using DDSOpt on my textures.  And no I did NOT reduce the quality of the textures, I ran DDSOpt and limited the textures to 8192x8192.  What DDSOpt does if configured correctly is to check every texture for conformance to specs and standards, and if any are incorrectly configured it corrects them without reducing their size or quality.

 

That alone fixed the CTD for me.

 

btw, it's important that you know which textures you can or cannot run DDSOpt against.  For example, don't run it against any meshes, use it only for textures, and don't run it against any water textures.  There are instructions within the Step site that go into a lot of detail about that, just follow the directions:

 

https://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:DDSopt#tab=Using_DDSopt

Edited June 12, 2014 by Glanzer

[Aiyen]

You will CTD if you overload all memory with textures... if you put full 4k textures on everything no current computer would be able to run it! But for 2k and ENBoost setup properly then as long as nothing is wrong with the hardware... and you have suitable amounts of it then it cant cause a CTD. ENBoost simply create a way too large margin to use. 

 

Also all textures are only ever loaded once.. so for skin textures it is always loaded since you will always have a model that requires it nearby.

 

Anyways.. if you say you can just reload and play another hour.. then it is most likely just accumulated complexity due to the huge list. Depending on what you do then more or less stuff is stored in buffer as well etc. Most likely it is not just one single thing, but many smaller that just tag team up and create the proverbial drop. 

 

Edit: Another option is if you use many high quality model mods or mods that add new models to the world space... polygon count needs to be rather conservative or you will get loading issues or CTD´s upon transitions etc. 

[Quinnbeast]

Aiyen - Thanks for the input on this one, you've clarified the issue for me here. 

 

Now that I think about it, one of the mods I was removing was Flora Overhaul by Vurt... which of course adds new meshes as well as new textures. In fact, if I recall, Step Core + Requiem seemed perfectly stable to begin with. It was perhaps only when adding in things like body mods and SIC that I noticed a few occasional CTDs, which would point towards the detailed meshes and extra NPCs being the issue. So, removing any of these (Vurt's, SIC etc) would naturally ease the load. It's pretty well documented that certain types of NPC mod can make a PC crumble, but I didn't consider the stuff that adds static/scenic meshes.

 

It was definitely an issue that came about when changing cells or moving indoor to outdoor, and might explain why it appears that my new GPU is handling the load better. Anyways, I'll stop hi-jacking now :)

Edited June 13, 2014 by Quinnbeast