ACCEPTED White Phial Replacer (by Saerileth)

[Saerileth]

Thanks Aiyen :)

 

Been taking some screens of the naked bottle (I love messing around with Serenity's DoF), and I've decided I quite like the little upward curve. You're right, symmetry is highly overrated.

 

There is one good thing that came from all of this - I was so annoyed at the constant nagging about the blank .esp that I put my mind to devising a way to get rid of it (once I got over my tantrum), and I actually came up with something! The idea is pretty simple, I just added an extra bit of geometry to the mesh that is linked to a totally transparent spot on a Dawnguard texture. As long as the DLC is loaded, the cube will be completely invisible. But try to use it without the DLC installed, and the game will no longer know the texture is supposed to be transparent - you get a bright purple bar across the middle of the mesh. Here's what that looks like:

 

I think that qualifies as "requires the DLC to function properly", so I can safely remove the .esp and everyone's happy. Except for the first idiot to complain about the purple bar because they didn't read the description... that person certainly won't be happy when I'm through.

 

Gotta run some more tests to make absolutely sure the box is not visible for Dawnguard users, but looking good so far.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Saerileth

[Octopuss]

That's a double edged sword my friend. Can you imagine the ********* in the comments when stupid people who are unable to read stickies, descriptions and whatever will spam it with "omg mod breaked parpl ffs FU fix plzzzzzzz!!!11"? :P

Edited June 25, 2014 by Octopuss

[Aiyen]

Why do you not just make custom texture paths for everything Saer ? If all you need is a specific texture from a DLC, just change the path in the mesh to not include it but rather your own custom one. Problem solved I would think... unless I entirely misunderstood what is going on! 

 

I know I do it for more or less everything I am doing when I do mesh edits... I just do not want to deal with people who happen to use some other texture replacer, or place it wrong relative to some other mod and get a non desired result.... Also it is so annoying to answer "There is an overwrite conflict with mod X. Is it safe to overwrite". 

[redirishlord]

Thanks Aiyen :)

 

Been taking some screens of the naked bottle (I love messing around with Serenity's DoF), and I've decided I quite like the little upward curve. You're right, symmetry is highly overrated.

 

There is one good thing that came from all of this - I was so annoyed at the constant nagging about the blank .esp that I put my mind to devising a way to get rid of it (once I got over my tantrum), and I actually came up with something! The idea is pretty simple, I just added an extra bit of geometry to the mesh that is linked to a totally transparent spot on a Dawnguard texture. As long as the DLC is loaded, the cube will be completely invisible. But try to use it without the DLC installed, and the game will no longer know the texture is supposed to be transparent - you get a bright purple bar across the middle of the mesh. Here's what that looks like:

 

I think that qualifies as "requires the DLC to function properly", so I can safely remove the .esp and everyone's happy. Except for the first idiot to complain about the purple bar because they didn't read the description... that person certainly won't be happy when I'm through.

 

Gotta run some more tests to make absolutely sure the box is not visible for Dawnguard users, but looking good so far.

An elegant solution, "purple" is so the new "read the sticky", or was it orange, maybe black?

[EssArrBee]

That's even more evil than biting.

 

I like it.

[Saerileth]

@Aiyen: technically the phial doesn't need any assets from Dawnguard directly, the parts of the bow mesh used in the handle are integrated into my own mesh obviously, and I also heavily modified the textures (different texture layout to fit elements of the bow and shield in, darkened everything to a more ebony look and added the frost), so I use my own paths for all of that anyway. The problem is, the source material is still from the Dawnguard DLC, and Nexus policy states that I cannot publish those without making the DLC a requirement. Which is how this whole mess started.

 

@Octopuss: I can't wait for a chance to throw badgers at them :P

 

The update is live, complete with a shiny new fomod installer. If someone with the Dawnguard DLC could please test if they see anything out of order with the new meshes, that would be awesome... I'm pretty sure it works as expected, but Skyrim can be finicky at times.

[Aiyen]

Say what...

So let me understand this correctly. You have part of a mesh and some textures which you have used as a base from dawnguard... and because of that it is not simply enough to state thank you bethesda in the credits ? 

 

As long as your model does not require anything directly pathed to the DLC then it make no sense that there should be a requirement at all. 

I mean for all intents and purposes the work is standalone and will work without the DLC as long as nothing links to it. 

 

 

I am really rather confused by this hehe. 

[Saerileth]

It's a copyright issue. Essentially I'd be distributing Dawnguard assets to people who have potentially not bought it (since it works without it) and that could potentially make Bethesda very unhappy. Which is why Nexus won't host it unless the DLC is required. Mine is a bit of a special case since I modified the source material so heavily, I really doubt anyone would take it amiss. But Nexus is not taking any chances, and I can't say I blame them... it's just such a hassle for everyone else involved.

 

Converting meshes / textures between other TES games and Fallout is prohibited for much the same reasons, by the way. That's why Skywind will refuse to install unless you have Morrowind and it's expansions, otherwise they'd be in one hell of legal trouble.

[Aiyen]

So many shades of grey... there is a debate that could go on forever if I ever saw one. 

 

I know in this particular case I would never have considered there would be an issue due to the heavy modification of the asset. 

Like if I used a texture from the DLC as one layer out of of ten new ones to create a new look, then I would no longer consider that as a DLC asset in any way. Since the modifications I made to it will have made it an entirely new asset in every way. 

 

It is not like if you took entire models and their respective textures and then redid all the pathing and created an .esp for their inclusion in the original game. 

 

But oh well... guess it will not be relevant for me anytime soon.. I prefer to create just about everything from the ground up anyways, if only for the learning experience. 

[Saerileth]

There's a very fine line between "inspiration" and "copying". That's a harsh lesson I've had to learn as an aspiring artist... you can never be too careful about your sources.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Saerileth

[EssArrBee]

"Everyone steals" - Picasso

[DoubleYou]

Well, I guess the question is, would anybody notice that this picture...

was created from this picture...

without somebody telling them. (BTW, the bottom is a picture I took with my camera, and the above is the result of my limited Photoshop skills)

 

I think in a situation like this, the creation is entirely new from the original, and can only be called an inspiration.

[Saerileth]

Heh. Nexus staff may or may not even have noticed that I used part of Auriel's Bow in my mesh... if I hadn't asked them what the site policy was on the matter. I was curious. It backfired.  But I guess a preemtive measure like that is better than having the mod taken down later. Besides, I'm too honest for my own good. At any rate, the issue is solved now, unless someone points out a weird visual glitch with my supposedly invisible purple bar even with Dawnguard installed.

 

So, to bring us back to the actual purpose of this thread... do you guys think the non-Dawnguard version is close enough the the vanilla design to be considered for STEP core? The 50% option is almost exactly the same size as the original. I'd recommend 80% for anyone who opts for the DG edition though, the handle just looks weird on the smallest bottle.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Saerileth

[Aiyen]

Guess this all sums up to.. 

It is the end product that matters, not the means by which you got to em! 

 

If you had made the handle yourself in a modeling program instead of just cutting of a bit of bow mesh then it would still look the same... 

 

Oh well I will just eagerly await what you come up with next! 

[redirishlord]

You are too honest, "better to beg forgiveness than ask permission".

 

Personally, I thought (think) that the DLC version is the superior "fix" since it's inspired by Beth's own assets and (for me) isn't anymore drastic an "improvement" than Ren's Shrines (for example, recolor &/or texture vanilla shrines), or different fonts or objectives that change vanilla content for the better while keeping the spirit & intent of the original. I think you accomplished that, but I acknowledge I'm in the minority with that opinion ...

... so in the interest of consensus building I would vote for the non-Dg version as Core & the Dg version as an Extended option.

 

@ ninja Aiyen, I think there's a preview of what's next on the Serenity forums, pretty picture, you can't miss it.

Edited June 26, 2014 by redirishlord