SKYRIMLE Hold Border Banners by Thicketford

[Salvador]

So we assume Skyrim is still in ancient times?

No, not necessarily - I was just responding to Phosphor's reference to the Romans. I don't think insisting on holding a fantasy planet to a fixed period of Earth history would make too much sense.

 

Having said that, every single structure in Skyrim appears to be built of some combination of wood and stone. There are lumber mills all over the place, and all other road signs are made of wood. All I'm saying is that I find it fairly implausible that any society, including the present day, would use cloth as the medium for a system of permanent markers on a road system, and I find it a bit jarring. If there was some type of manned checkpoint, or a town that fell right on the border, banners there would make sense to me.

 

As I said though, it's not a cut and dried argument, just how I see it. If others like them, that's great!

Ah, apologies if I came across a bit harsh, I agree with you to be honest ;). I feel they should have been made of wood, as that is how roadsigns and most modern day (in Skyrim) signs are made. Most stone markings are ancient (in Skyrim). it is just something that comes up a lot on fora around Skyrim. Most people do seem to link the Imperials to the Romans and Skyrim to that period and is therefore often the reason for debate around how lore friendly/realistic something is, which is flawed in my opinion. However, playing the game wise, I really like this mod and it adds something that was missing, albeit a little unrealistic, having nothing seems even more unrealistic to me, especially regarding the civil war, which has been pointed out previously.

Now if someone made real (ancient Skyrim) crippled borders such as those found in Wales to mark borders to land for farmers, now that would be cool. Hey perhaps I just found what my new mod will be ;). If I find the time, and my wife doesn't kill me :P.

[MontyMM]

I think it could be improved by mixing it up a little bit.  The thing I find odd is that they're all so neatly matching, back to back, in every case - seems too perfect to me.  Perhaps on a major road border near a city, we might see banners for that keep.  But perhaps others could just be wooden markers, some well kept, others overgrown and mossy, and so on.

[TechAngel85]

@ Mod/Admin

 

Not to break topic, but why is this thread "stuck"?

[WilliamImm]

By mistake, one thinks? Unstuck.

[Sairven]

All of the banners are weathered except for Eastmarch, which kinda makes sense due to Stormcloaks crawling all over the place. So I just don't see an issue there.

 

 

And why wouldn't they be uniform? Each "state" is called a "Hold". Each Hold is governed by someone known as a Jarl. Each Jarl has a court wizard, housecarl, and steward. They also appoint thanes who also have their own housecarl.

 

What's to say the hold border banners isn't another thing they might have in common? The rebellion didn't last forever, you know.

[torminater]

Well even without open wars against the US anybody pissed of at sth the US government did at some point in time burns US flags wherever they can be found. I think it's safe to say enemy troops would burn anything that suits as a reminder to whom that piece of land belongs to to the ground and I don't think that people are then bothered with reerecting them.

A massive Stone Pillar with an ancient (or not so ancient) nordic engraving that you now enter the realm under the direct influence of one or the other hold as a statement of power and a threat to any opponents would probably withstand most efforts of destroying it. But those would probably not be very up2date. I'ld say, if you placed those pillars in the vicinity of a hold's towns or capitals at or close to main roads leading directly to them it would make more sense, BUT then the actual reason why the modder puts them there is for naught, since by then you already know to which hold it belongs.

 

I'ld say any option has it's pros and cons, but I'ld like a mixture of the different options.

 

For example any town or village could have a stone pillar at the roads leading to it, just as far away from the town that you can't yet see it as an announcer which hold you are in and who has the jurisdiction in that hold. In the settlements banners would need to be placed to show the allegiance to either Stormcloaks or imperials.

Around forts and outposts there could be wooden posts with signs which state who currently owns this realm. On top of the fortified structures banners would indicate the owner and his allegiance to either Imperials or Stormcloaks.

During the civil war campaign captured settlements and outposts and regions would have the banners replaced with the banner of the victorious.

 

It would need a couple of simple scripts and an esp to place the different items. For compatibility one could make a esp without the banner feature and maybe Apollo or the mod author would provide a compatibility edition for CWO.

 

In general I'ld like to see pillars, posts and banners only in places where they are easily maintainable by the populace without needing a "lantern caretaker" lighting up a lantern in the middle of nothing during a blizzard and the most bloody war on skyrim ground for hundreds of years...

This being said, there will be transitional areas between the fortified structures and settlements without a indication to whom this area belongs, since as others already said there usually won't be a clear and clean borderline inbetween the holds, since they shift with the troop movements.

Of course game mechanics will still draw a clean borderline and if you get caught in a "no-man's-land" you will still owe the penalty to the jarl of the hold it "actually" belongs to, but imho it would be utterly more immersive than a banner with one hold on one side and the other hold on the other side...

[vfxninjaeditor]

So, I have a question.

 

If some of you guys have the opinion it should have some variety or it should be stone markers - why are you discussing it here where the author can't see your suggestions and critics? I understand the reason and need for discussion, but perhaps if any progress on that be made the author might need to hear the opinions. I see much more of a benefit in that.

 

I think the mod is great. I agree with Sairven, everything else about the 'holds' is uniform so why wouldn't their banners?

[MontyMM]

Well, we do a lot of mod discussion on here, to work out what we might want to include. We usually do that here rather than on the Nexus, so it's easier to manage for our purposes. If anyone feels the need to make some suggestions to the author, that's great - I do that sometimes myself.

[rootsrat]

I'll ask him to kindly have a look at this thread.

[Thicketford]

Hey everyone. First of all, thank you to rootsrat for telling me about S.T.E.P. I really appreciate all the feed back and it's given me a lot to think about.

 

When I was making the mod I originally used the Riften Sign post to hold the flags and it looked a little awkward. I settled on the civil war banners because I thought it was a better fit. I like to think the Jarls had a discussion in a previous moot and agreed to put up the banners and make them to a certain standard. The Eastmarch / Stormcloak banner looking newer was just a happy coincidence. I couldn't actually find a banner for Windhelm in the CK and the Stormcloak banner was the closest I could find.

 

I used Warburg's paper map when placing the banners to make sure they lined up properly. I'm a little bit OCD, so I wanted them to match up with the map lines as closely as possible.

 

I agree that stone markers would look better in some locations, however I'm not really sure what to use. If anyone can recommend an asset within the CK I'd appreciate it. I have zero experience with creating my own models and textures.

[MontyMM]

Welcome Thicketford. We have a fair few modders lurking round these parts, so I'm sure there'll be some help available for some stone models. Let us know if you'd like to join our Mod Authors group - we've just opened a separate area for modders to collaborate on this sort of thing. ;)

[torminater]

Hey Thicketford, welcome!

You could take the stone pillars which are standing around the standing stones (with the glowing fx on them) e.g. in the morthal Swamp.

The only problem would be to apply the engravings on to them...

[Allsunday]

UP! I love this mod, one of those little things. Thicketford said he's currently working on another mod but I hope he doesn't forget about Hold Banners :D

[rootsrat]

UP! I love this mod, one of those little things. Thicketford said he's currently working on another mod but I hope he doesn't forget about Hold Banners :D

 

I use this since I've found it and it blends in perfectly, it's a great little mod! I browsed Thicketford's mod collection on Nexus today and there were a few good finds!

[Glanzer]

FWIW I've been using this mod for a while along with LoS and Point the Way and I haven't had any problems at all with it. I have tons of mods too (about 240 ESPs).