Affordable (health) Care Act

[WilliamImm]

...so, Iran may be acquiring nukes, Syria has a bloody civil war, and the thing the GOP is most passionate about is repealing the Affordable Healthcare Act, to the point that the government is in hibernation? I sense skewed priorities...

[MontyMM]

The great irony is that by holding a gun to the economy's head at this delicate time, they could create another economic collapse that could be as serious as the real problems you mention, for the whole world.

 

Their attitude beggars belief - they lost the election to a party that had Obamacare as part of its manifesto, they lost in their opposition to the bill in the first place, and now they threaten to drive the country off a cliff... all the while accusing the Whitehouse of failing to compromise!  You don't compromise on what you've already won, unless you have raisins in your braincase.  That's like finding a burglar in your kitchen, and saying, "OK, let's split the difference and you take half my stuff."  :P

[torminater]

Well, not all is gold in Germany as well, but in more cases than not people get paid what the insurancies are due to pay for their treatment, and if not, they have a good chance of suing them for the money. All in all most operations and treatments in Germany are a whole lot cheaper than in the US, which partly is caused by doctors and dentists needing to pay enormous amounts of cash in their insurances which cover their behinds if they should screw one of their operations up and get sued by a couple of million dollars. Those doctors and dentists then need to raise their prices for everything, so they can afford their insurance but also make some sort of living after having to pay a high 6-digit number of dollars for their education which goes into the 7-digits as soon as they open up their own practice and acquire all the special equipment they need.

 

So yeah, in Germany nobody can sue for 1-2 million dollars of more over everything. So insurances for screw-ups from doctors are a lot lower, and prices are more affordable EVEN WITHOUT HEALTH CARE or without payment from the insurance.

[EssArrBee]

Nothing is going to happen from the gov't being shutdown, unless it stays that way for a couple months. Between '76 and '90 we shutdown 15 times in that 14 year span and no one even noticed. The difference now is that we have 10 cable networks and 50 blogs screaming at us 24/7 that the sky is falling because the louder you yell the higher your ratings. I actually still read newspapers just so I can figure out what the f**k is happening in world.

 

The problem we have now is that opening the gov't back up is going to be hard because the Teabaggers already lost on postponing the ACA since it started on the 1st. The most shocking thing about this mess, is that the people of country refuse do anything meaningful to effect change. We only care until the next football game starts, bring on the Bud, Papa Johns, and NFL!!!

[MontyMM]

Yes, I don't think the shutdown is that big a problem in itself, except insofar as it hurts a lot of vulnerable people. What worries me most (and, it seems, the markets), is that these nutcases might just be crazy enough to drag this to an actual US debt default. That would be another ballgame entirely, and just the spectre of it could do enormous damage.

 

I totally agree on the media situation - quality newspapers and journals are still the way to go. TV news in general - you might as well listen to a dog bark at you from the back of a car.

[EssArrBee]

Yeah the shutdown does not affect the ability to pay our bills because we are still collecting taxes even with the IRS being mostly furloughed. That fight will be in the next week or so when the debt ceiling is up for a vote again, but that would have a much bigger effect on the American and world economy that this shutdown. We owe England, Japan, and China trillions of dollars, so in about 10 days we will not be able to afford to run our country with everyone else's money.

 

Good thing the American people are totally driven and focused about fixing this problem and not at all fat, lazy, and apathetic to our own problems.... Oh wait:facepalm:

[phazer11]

...so' date=' Iran may be acquiring nukes, Syria has a bloody civil war, and the thing the GOP is most passionate about is repealing the Affordable Healthcare Act, to the point that the government is in hibernation? I sense skewed priorities...[/quote']

Dude... you're just now realizing this? Also the middle east is a powder keg. Gadafi, Syria, Egypt, civil wars, etc.

The great irony is that by holding a gun to the economy's head at this delicate time' date=' they could create another economic collapse that could be as serious as the real problems you mention, for the whole world.

 

Their attitude beggars belief - they lost the election to a party that had Obamacare as part of its manifesto, they lost in their opposition to the bill in the first place, and now they threaten to drive the country off a cliff... all the while accusing the Whitehouse of failing to compromise!  You don't compromise on what you've already won, unless you have raisins in your braincase.  That's like finding a burglar in your kitchen, and saying, "OK, let's split the difference and you take half my stuff."  :P[/quote']

Very much agreed. The GOP needs some serious time alone (and probably a complete dismantling), the DEM party is better but it has it's own laundry list to iron out but I don't see it taking a complete wipe-out of the party to fix like the GOP. There are to many old people in the GOP trying desperately to cling on to their power and their pocketbooks, you also have nutcases like this Bill Zedler who claim people  sticking up for women's rights are "terrorists"

Yes' date=' I don't think the shutdown is that big a problem in itself, except insofar as it hurts a lot of vulnerable people. What worries me most (and, it seems, the markets), is that these nutcases might just be crazy enough to drag this to an actual US debt default. That would be another ballgame entirely, and just the spectre of it could do enormous damage.

 

I totally agree on the media situation - quality newspapers and journals are still the way to go. TV news in general - you might as well listen to a dog bark at you from the back of a car.

[/quote']

There are also some in general superb online news sites (I think you in the UK even get a newpaper version in some places of a couple of these). There's Reuter's, Huffington Post, The Guardian if you must see something on TV or from an American company I'd trust no one but CNN... and even then.

 

Also I'll leave a quote from the amazing Robin Williams from 2009 "We're a heavily medicated society. All the drugs we take: Prozac, Effexor, Valium. I thought for the last ten years, we've been on some weird ******* drug - the whole country - called "Fukitol." " Seriously watch his Weapons of Self-Destruction show, though it may contain content not suitable for "children" *cough Will* jk. It's sort of bipartisan bashing Bush and Cheyney, Palin, Biden etc and there are other non political stuff but it's all funny if you need something to lift your spirits.

 

Though... I sense I may have gone a little too off topic... heheh anyways I'm in the process of getting setup with the new insurance I'll see how much I can save, the insurance we're currently on is ridiculously overpriced for meds and such. One of the ones I take was actually cheaper to buy it from a local store (Target I think) without using the insurance IIRC.

[MontyMM]

Yes, I subscribe to the paper edition of the Guardian, and the serious content is excellent. The web edition annoys me a bit, because they have to include quite a lot of click-bait ******** ("send us photos of your dog looking funny!", "Poll - Did Miley Cyrus go too far by getting her bum out?") But, that's probably unavoidable, as, like most serious newspapers, it mostly loses money.

 

With regard to the whole Democrat/Republican situation, I don't have a horse in that race. But, I think the Teabagger wing of the GOP are so deluded and dangerous that it becomes a larger concern than US domestic politics. They should scare the hell out of everyone. What I can't really decide, is whether these people are actually real. Can anyone actually think like that, or are they a calculated performance, massively insulting everyone's intelligence?

[Aiyen]

Since they are elected then they must be like that and people must agree with them somewhere in the states.

 

They only become really dangerous once they unite behind one leader who can keep them all in check. There are always these people who are going to get into power by playing on peoples fears, and prejudice. They exist in every democracy...

However I find it really silly that they can be a part of the republican party... but then again I always found it utterly silly that there are only two parties in the US. There are so many small interest groups that are effectively their own party... yet if things go south they can kinda go back and hide inside the "big" party again like nothing happened.

[EssArrBee]

It is not just the stupidity, but that they really, truly believe themselves to be infallible, like the are on a mission from God. No matter how many times you tell them two plus two four, they don't care because fat radio Jesus told them it was three. They think the gov't can't do anything right, then they get elected and prove themselves right. Wow, I think they just proved perpetual motion can exist.

 

Anyways, Teabaggers or not, I just hope my poorer students now have an option to get help if they ever need it.

[MontyMM]

 There are always these people who are going to get into power by playing on peoples fears, and prejudice. They exist in every democracy...

However I find it really silly that they can be a part of the republican party...

 

Right - this is what I find curious.  We certainly have our share of batshit political groups, some of them far nastier at heart than the Teabaggers.  They might even occasionally win a council seat or two in some benighted and backwards part of the country. But I find it really extraordinary that they can infect what was a respectable and serious political party, the only party of opposition, and potentially drag the largest economy on the planet to a standstill.

[Neovalen]

My opinion is there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides (and plenty of batshit crazies - have you seen the pro-abortion crowd?). The problem, in general, is we have a 2-party system. Both of our two parties should be broken up into smaller ones and power ACTUALLY shared between the various groups. Right now both sides play the "my way or the highway" style politics which leaves the opposition with the only recourse of shutdown, fillibuster, etc. and nothing gets accomplished. Last election had a 5% split, that means no-one has license to be a dictatorship. Everyone says we are the majority of the house/senate and now we have to measure our genitals and get nothing accomplished!

 

I'm a fiscal conservative, the fact that we haven't passed a budget is 5 years is APPALLING to me. The fact that no-one on the Dem side seems to care is even worse. While I would agree a shutdown is not optimal, if it gets both sides to the table to work on a compromise (eventually) that is a good thing in my opinion.

 

My opinion on the ACA/Obamacare thus far has been very negative. I have friends who have been cut down to part time work, others health plans are going to be dropped once the employer mandate kicks in. Personally, my premiums have gone up (in california here) a fairly large chunk since it was passed after a long period of stability. In it's present form it's not sustainable for the long haul and there is a better way to be had. The problem with the ACA is that there was no compromise, no debate, and half the people voting on the bill didn't read it before passing it. It was rammed through on a complete party line vote (and even then sweeteners had to be added to get some people to go along). That, right there, more than anything it can possibly say shows that it is a bad bill.

 

The solution is simple, find common ground and work together. Stop the name calling, negativity, etc.

[MontyMM]

Well, again, mine is only an outside perspective. I'm not a partisan who likes to yell names at the opposition, and I can totally respect a position of fiscal conservatism. But, I have to say that I have never seen anything remotely like the degree of reckless obstructionism that I've seen during the Obama administration. I'm not looking at it in a party-political way, but I'm simply curious about it as an extraordinary phenomena - asking how did it come about, and why does it behave the way it does?

 

The slight problem I have with their calls for compromise on a number of issues, is that they appear to be rather dishonest; they seem to keep doing it even after a matter is democratically settled. The aim seems to be - compromise on the initial question, and split the difference. Then, shortly afterwards, demand more compromise on what has been settled and agreed; to split the difference again and again, under pain of reckless threats to the functioning of the country, until they've whittled what they've lost down to nothing, and fully got their way. I think that behaviour is something new, or at least I've never seen anything quite like it. To me, it goes beyond a political discussion (which I wouldn't want to get involved in), to what appears to be a breakdown in the rational and civilized standards of behaviour that are needed for a democracy to function.

 

And we all really need the US to function!

[phazer11]

Well, again, mine is only an outside perspective. I'm not a partisan who likes to yell names at the opposition, and I can totally respect a position of fiscal conservatism. But, I have to say that I have never seen anything remotely like the degree of reckless obstructionism that I've seen during the Obama administration. I'm not looking at it in a party-political way, but I'm simply curious about it as an extraordinary phenomena - asking how did it come about, and why does it behave the way it does?

 

The slight problem I have with their calls for compromise on a number of issues, is that they appear to be rather dishonest; they seem to keep doing it even after a matter is democratically settled. The aim seems to be - compromise on the initial question, and split the difference. Then, shortly afterwards, demand more compromise on what has been settled and agreed; to split the difference again and again, under pain of reckless threats to the functioning of the country, until they've whittled what they've lost down to nothing, and fully got their way. I think that behaviour is something new, or at least I've never seen anything quite like it. To me, it goes beyond a political discussion (which I wouldn't want to get involved in), to what appears to be a breakdown in the rational and civilized standards of behaviour that are needed for a democracy to function.

 

And we all really need the US to function!

 

That Monty is one of the sad truths, the US is such a big player that it's dragging everything else down with it. While I disagree wholeheartedly with Neo on the abortion issue (

especially in instances of rape

) I do agree that the party system needs an overhaul. I also believe that the Electoral College needs work too this whole mess could have been avoided if Bush hadn't strolled in and dragged everything to hell in a hand basket (after Gore won the important vote)

 

As far as I'm concerned religion has no place in politics and I believe that politicians shouldn't broadcast their religious views for voters. I also subscribe to the view that

followers of a religion should read their chosen religions texts very thoroughly and ask questions to their religious leaders but that's another matter

lol.

[EssArrBee]

Well, we owe the UK around 1 trillion dollars so I'd say yeah you need us to pay our bills. What kind of interest do you get on a trillion dollars?

 

One thing that has gotten lost in the last 4-5 years that the Tea party has been around is how their supposed grassroots movement was actually a highly organized multi-million dollar operations from day one. When it grew much faster than was expected, the ultra rich who behind funding it thought it was a positive to have so many people jump on the bandwagon and get a bunch of people elected. What couldn't see happening is that a lot fringe groups who had kept their views out of the mainstream for decades latched on to the movement and by time anyone realized what was going on, it was too late.

 

The rich created the Tea Party to try and buy their own puppet gov't, but instead they created a monster that they no longer have control over. It has become a movement dictated by radio shock-jocks, religious fundamentalists, and borderline anarchists. And if are a part of the movement and even think about stepping out of line, they will devour you like cannibals. That is the only end game for the Tea Party, to eventually destroy itself through self-destruction, and it has already started. They've only had one real candidate get elected to the Senate, Rand Paul, all the other Tea Party Senators were already in the Republican party before the Tea Party showed up, just jumped on the bandwagon.

 

Their lasting legacy will end up being that they wanted to get nothing done and succeeded, but for that the people will forget they ever existed.

 

And I'm not really sure how long you've had health insurance costs staying stagnant because they are up over 100% in the last 10 years. They may have leveled off for a year or two while companies got ready for the new laws, but overall people are paying way more than tens years ago, and inflation has only been about 3-4% a year over that time.