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Wrye Bash lacking wizards where NMM has them


gajop

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Climates of tamriel installation with NMM can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l-T3cWGH2LY&t=259.

There's a proper wizard with no installation needed, yet what I have with Wrye Bash is just a couple of sub-packages. I have the same thing with Winter is Coming (cloaks) and SMIM. 

And even the ones with wizards seem just wrong, as they aren't properly handling multiple choice cases, e.g. in XP32's Maximum Skeleton.

 

So why is Wrye Bash recommended over NMM? It's so much harder to work with, and even though it's much more stable it still does some stupid decisions like extracting files in C:/ rather than the drive where the mods are which can cause issues on its own...

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You seem to be making the assumption that the ease of installation of CoT with NMM is an inherent capability of NMM itself. It isn't. CoT has a complex Fomod install script written by the CoT author, and NMM uses this. The author organized the files in CoT to make it easier for a manual installation using Wrye Bash, but the CoT author did not include an actual Wrye Bash wizard (the WB equivalent of an Fomod installation script). If a wizard had been included it would have been just as easy to install CoT using WB as with NMM. The author chose to include only the installation script for NMM. Some authors prefer Fomod scripts and some prefer WB wizards.

 

When a wizard doesn't work, the problem isn't with WB it is with the wizard script. WB (and Mod Organizer) isn't as easy to use as NMM, but NMM has some fatal flaws as pointed out by EssArrBee.

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Seems to me that the fact Wrye Bash cannot read fonmod install configuration files is an "inherent capability" of the program, and is something that the users (especially noobs) should be warned about in the STEP guide.

I'm not sure how many mods out there use fonmod, but from my perspective (100 mods right now and mostly STEP), I would say that it's pretty important.

What about MO? Does it support fonmod? I think I've read somewhere that it does, but I'm not sure.

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Yes MO supports fomods, but most mods do not need an installer because they are packaged correctly for you to install them with whatever mod manager you use. In wrye bash the mods with wizards should have a little wand in the box under the installers tab. To use it just right click on the mod and select wizard. It is much like a fomod installer.

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Seems to me that the fact Wrye Bash cannot read fonmod install configuration files is an "inherent capability" of the program, and is something that the users (especially noobs) should be warned about in the STEP guide.

I'm not sure how many mods out there use fonmod, but from my perspective (100 mods right now and mostly STEP), I would say that it's pretty important.

What about MO? Does it support fonmod? I think I've read somewhere that it does, but I'm not sure.

Expecting Wrye Bash to read installation scripts of another manager is a little unreasonable as installation script commands are closely tied to the program design; NMM can't read WB wizards either. Wrye Bash has some unique features, notably the bashed patch, that are not available in other mod managers (note that it is possible to use Mod Organizer to get WB to generate bashed patches). There aren't any features in Fomod scripts that cannot be achieved with WB wizard scripts.

 

The Mod Organizer description page says it has "partial compatibility with BAIN and fomod installers".

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Cool, good to know.

Although I've finally installed everything with Wrye Bash, and I'm kinda lazy to reinstall it with MO (not sure on the compatibility).

In the worst case I'll just read the fonmod XMLs and figure out how it gets stuff installed, it seems quite simple.

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There are issues with NMM uninstalling mods when you uninstall a mod it just removes the files completely without replacing the files with whatever it was overwriting. Mod Organizer is a good program to use if you do not want to use WB.

Are you sure about that? Why the NMM team hasn't implemented such an important feature yet?

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NMM is in everlasting Beta .... not sure why they don't implement some basic intelligence around hierarchical management and other features that MO and WB both have ... probably because NMM's focus is on mod tracking and Nexus integration across many gaming platforms.

 

STEP recommends MO or WB, not just WB. (and the former is definitely simpler for beginners).

 

However, you will learn a great deal more about modding mechanics by using WB than any other mod manager. This is why I personally recommend that new modders experiment with manual installation and then move to WB, which forces people to manage package structures, installation order and conflict resolution.

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I'm pretty sure that NMM doesn't have as many features is that it does not just focus on one game engine setup. That is a luxury for MO and WB that the nexus people don't have, since they have to develop a manager for many different games. With a new Witcher game coming before any Beth game and Saints Row 4 might have have mod tools, I'd bet that they will need to ready for those games which should be active. Not to the Skyrim level, but they will be popular and require a mod manager.

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There are issues with NMM uninstalling mods when you uninstall a mod it just removes the files completely without replacing the files with whatever it was overwriting. Mod Organizer is a good program to use if you do not want to use WB.

Are you sure about that? Why the NMM team hasn't implemented such an important feature yet?

 

While I personally use WB these days I'm quite familiar with NMM and what EssArrBee is claiming is a common but untrue statement. NMM reinstalls overwritten files just fine, it does track in which order you install files.

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I'm not going to bother answering the OP but the reason Mod Organizer is used rather than NMM is because of the way things are overwritten. In NMM if you wish to change the install order you have to uninstall a mod(s) then reinstall in whatever order you wish your mods to now be in. In Mod Organizer you install or update and then you can drag mods up or down the list changing your load order or simply input the position you want it to be in via the keyboard. That's about the simplest explanation I can give as to why, but it's not the only reason.

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