Gap between full grass and grass LOD

[spcarso]

Hello Sheson - (Big fan - thanks for everything you do.)
I have a gap between the grass around me and the grass off in the distance.

The grass in uGridsToLoad looks great

The LOD grass in FarGrids looks great

No LOD/Grass in NearGrids.

My SkyrimPrefs.ini has uGridsToLoad at 7 and uLargeRefLODGridSize at 11

My question is, should I be adjust the SkyrimPrefs ini or am I doing something odd in the generation.

In the DynDOLOD_SSE.ini I have GrassLargeReference=0
Thanks so much.

[sheson]

3 hours ago, spcarso said:

Hello Sheson - (Big fan - thanks for everything you do.)
I have a gap between the grass around me and the grass off in the distance.

The grass in uGridsToLoad looks great

The LOD grass in FarGrids looks great

No LOD/Grass in NearGrids.

My SkyrimPrefs.ini has uGridsToLoad at 7 and uLargeRefLODGridSize at 11

My question is, should I be adjust the SkyrimPrefs ini or am I doing something odd in the generation.

In the DynDOLOD_SSE.ini I have GrassLargeReference=0
Thanks so much.

NearGrid and FarGrid are concepts of dynamic LOD. Grass LOD is generated in static object LOD meshes for LOD Level 4.

Read the second post or ..\DynDOLOD\docs\help\GrassLOD.html

Set GrassLargeReference to 0 in ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_SSE.ini so grass LOD starts right beyond the active cells (uGridsToLoad, default = 5). Use this with DynDOLODGrassMode = 1 in ..\NetScriptFramework\Plugins\GrassControl.config.txt.

Set GrassLargeReference to 1 in ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_SSE.ini so grass LOD starts right beyond the large reference distance (uLargeRefLODGridSize, typically between 5 = off and 11). Use this with DynDOLODGrassMode = 2 in ..\NetScriptFramework\Plugins\GrassControl.config.txt.

If grass LOD was generated with GrassLargeReference=0, then set DynDOLODGrassMode=1 in GrassControl.config.txt.

[spcarso]

3 hours ago, sheson said:

If grass LOD was generated with GrassLargeReference=0, then set DynDOLODGrassMode=1 in GrassControl.config.txt.

Great!  I'll rerun with DynDOLODGrassMode=1  Thanks so much!

[AiElias]

What do I need to do to remove this void space between grass and grass LOD with uGridsToLoad = 7 ? I'm assuming there's an ini distance setting I'm missing but for all I know it may very well not be possible.

Edit: BTW, I'm using grass mode 1, and the cells without grass are not far grids, they are fully loaded by the game. So it looks like there's some terrain blending going on in the game.

Edited October 11, 2021 by AiElias

[sheson]

57 minutes ago, AiElias said:

What do I need to do to remove this void space between grass and grass LOD with uGridsToLoad = 7 ? I'm assuming there's an ini distance setting I'm missing but for all I know it may very well not be possible.

Edit: BTW, I'm using grass mode 1, and the cells without grass are not far grids, they are fully loaded by the game. So it looks like there's some terrain blending going on in the game.

Looks like grass LOD was generated for mode 2, but NGIO is currently running mode 1.

If grass LOD was generated with mode 1 and the gap goes away when using uGridsToLoad 5, then NGIO might be hardcoded to 5 cells for DynDOLODGrassMode = 1.

If that is the case set Set DynDOLODGrassMode = 2 and use mode 2 for grass LOD generation to use uLargeRefLODGridSize cells distance.
Or keep using sane uGridsToLoad 5.

Near/Far Grids are a concept of dynamic LOD and never have anything to do with terrain/object/tree LOD meshes/textures or other mods.

[AiElias]

39 minutes ago, sheson said:

If grass LOD was generated with mode 1 and the gap goes away when using uGridsToLoad 5, then NGIO might be hardcoded to 5 cells for DynDOLODGrassMode = 1.

If that is the case set Set DynDOLODGrassMode = 2 and use mode 2 for grass LOD generation so to use uLargeRefLODGridSize cells distance.

This is in fact the case, I've ensured both were set to 1. I will give this a go and see if it resolves the issue.

 

39 minutes ago, sheson said:

Or use sane uGridsToLoad 5.

Normally I would agree with you, unfortunately to get the ideal transition between LOD trees and loaded trees there needs to be a small amount of space in the loaded cells where shadows are not applied. Otherwise, when the full model gets loaded over the lod, there will be a sudden fade to dark when shadows are applied.

Given that uGrids update when the player is past the midpoint of the adjacent-to-center cells, a setting of uGrids 5 leaves a minimum distance of 6144 units between player and LOD. Given that the default fShadowDistance = 8000, this is unideal. Therefore, I see two possible solutions to this.

1) Reduce fShadowDistance to 4096 (2048 units seems to be enough distance under most circumstance to facilitate the transition from lod to full unshadowed model). Unfortunately, this is really ugly, and the unshadowed trees in the distance are really noticeable.

2) Increase fShadowDistance to the maximum distance the player can be away from LOD terrain, then manually blend LOD textures to the full lods with applied shadows. With uGrids 5, that distance is ~20275 units (diagonal measurement of cell x 3.5). Unfortunately fShadowDistance scales up the fShadowMapResolution and makes shadows look ugly. Not to mention issues like shadow acne and flickering.

Given these two options, increasing uGrids to 7 seems to be the better approach. Unless of course there's something I'm missing.

Edited October 11, 2021 by AiElias

[sheson]

19 minutes ago, AiElias said:

This is in fact the case, I've ensured both were set to 1. I will give this a go and see if it resolves the issue.

 

Normally I would agree with you, unfortunately to get the ideal transition between LOD trees and loaded trees there needs to be a small amount of space in the loaded cells where shadows are not applied. Otherwise, when the full model gets loaded over the lod, there will be a sudden fade to dark when shadows are applied.

Given that uGrids update when the player is past the midpoint of the adjacent-to-center cells, a setting of uGrids 5 leaves a minimum distance of 6144 units between player and LOD. Given that the default fShadowDistance = 8000, this is unideal. Therefore, I see two possible solutions to this.

1) Reduce fShadowDistance to 4096 (2048 units seems to be enough distance under most circumstance to facilitate the transition from lod to full unshadowed model). Unfortunately, this is really ugly, and the unshadowed trees in the distance are really noticeable.

2) Increase fShadowDistance to the maximum distance the player can be away from LOD terrain, then manually blend LOD textures to the full lods with applied shadows. With uGrids 5, that distance is ~20275 units. Unfortunately fShadowDistance scales up the fShadowMapResolution and makes shadows look ugly. Not to mention issues like shadow acne and flickering.

Given these two options, increasing uGrids to 7 seems to be the better approach. Unless of course there's something I'm missing.

Use ENB with distance shadows as alternative.

[AiElias]

33 minutes ago, sheson said:

Use ENB with distance shadows as alternative.

I've been testing with with this setting active. The shadows appear to be different enough to where the buffer zone between ENB shadows and game shadows is still necessary for seamless transition. At least with Manty's 3d trees. I can't speak for the card pines most people use.

[z929669]

34 minutes ago, AiElias said:

I've been testing with with this setting active. The shadows appear to be different enough to where the buffer zone between ENB shadows and game shadows is still necessary for seamless transition. At least with Manty's 3d trees. I can't speak for the card pines most people use.

I just want to point out that I believe the doc states (or sheson stated somewhere) that transition changes should be tested with collision and without speedmult ≥ 500. I do all of my LOD testing without collision and at high speed in sneak mode, but not for transitions (which are fairly stark when flying around like this).

[AiElias]

24 minutes ago, z929669 said:

I just want to point out that I believe the doc states (or sheson stated somewhere) that transition changes should be tested with collision and without speedmult ≥ 500. I do all of my LOD testing without collision and at high speed in sneak mode, but not for transitions (which are fairly stark when flying around like this).

Good to know the specifics of Sheson's methodology. I've been testing all sorts of different ways. I've found that at ground level with collision enabled (as the lighting is different compared to when you're flying around) with a speedmult of 400 seems to be the sweet spot between efficiency and accurate gameplay representation. Sounds like I've been on the ball.

[sheson]

49 minutes ago, z929669 said:

I just want to point out that I believe the doc states (or sheson stated somewhere) that transition changes should be tested with collision and without speedmult ≥ 500. I do all of my LOD testing without collision and at high speed in sneak mode, but not for transitions (which are fairly stark when flying around like this).

That's in the DynDOLOD-README.txt. This only affect dynamic LOD. It stops updating the player position until speed is lower again. it won't affect other LOD types.

Yes the distance shadow is a very rough and quick estimate for performance reasons.

[burnersaurus]

Finally managed to get DynDOLOD working on a consistent basis (despite my ineptitudes).
Thanks again for making it, it's a really nice and usefull tool

I have one question about the grass LODs though, something I cant figure out, and thats about the gap between the pop-out of the LODs and the fade-in of the loaded grass.
I've seen a lot of images and videos that show seemingly uninterrupted grass from the character all the way to the horizon, but no matter what I try, I still get the gap between the LODs and the loaded grass...
I tryed both grass modes in the DynDOLOD advanced menu. I tryed tweeking uGridsToLoad and all of the fGrassFade settings in the Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini. I tryed doing the same in BethINI and with the overwrite function in No Grass In Objects... but none of it makes any difference at all, as close as I can tell.

So what am I missing?

I'm sorry if this is the wrong topic to pose this question in, but I figure it's related to getting the most out of the awesome Grass LOD featrure in DynDOLOD 

[sheson]

13 minutes ago, burnersaurus said:

Finally managed to get DynDOLOD working on a consistent basis (despite my ineptitudes).
Thanks again for making it, it's a really nice and usefull tool

I have one question about the grass LODs though, something I cant figure out, and thats about the gap between the pop-out of the LODs and the fade-in of the loaded grass.
I've seen a lot of images and videos that show seemingly uninterrupted grass from the character all the way to the horizon, but no matter what I try, I still get the gap between the LODs and the loaded grass...
I tryed both grass modes in the DynDOLOD advanced menu. I tryed tweeking uGridsToLoad and all of the fGrassFade settings in the Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini. I tryed doing the same in BethINI and with the overwrite function in No Grass In Objects... but none of it makes any difference at all, as close as I can tell.

So what am I missing?

I'm sorry if this is the wrong topic to pose this question in, but I figure it's related to getting the most out of the awesome Grass LOD featrure in DynDOLOD 

From https://dyndolod.info/Help/Grass-LOD

Grass LOD can either start right beyond the active exterior cells (uGridsToLoad) which equals to Mode/DynDOLODGrassMode = 1 or beyond the large reference distance (uLargeRefLODGridSize) which equals to Mode/DynDOLODGrassMode = 2.

Set the desired Mode in the advanced mode of DynDOLOD under the Grass LOD checkbox and for DynDOLODGrassMode in ..\NetScriptFramework\Plugins\GrassControl.config.txt. While the DynDOLODGrassMode can be changed at any time, the Mode used to generate grass LOD is baked into the object LOD meshes.

[burnersaurus]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:54 PM, sheson said:

From https://dyndolod.info/Help/Grass-LOD

Grass LOD can either start right beyond the active exterior cells (uGridsToLoad) which equals to Mode/DynDOLODGrassMode = 1 or beyond the large reference distance (uLargeRefLODGridSize) which equals to Mode/DynDOLODGrassMode = 2.

Set the desired Mode in the advanced mode of DynDOLOD under the Grass LOD checkbox and for DynDOLODGrassMode in ..\NetScriptFramework\Plugins\GrassControl.config.txt. While the DynDOLODGrassMode can be changed at any time, the Mode used to generate grass LOD is baked into the object LOD meshes.

Thank you for replying Sheson. I did miss the bit about setting the mode both in the advanced menu and the GrassControl.config.txt..

[WhoWhatWhen]

Steps taken to generate LOD

Ran xLODGEN to only generate terrain LODs, opened skyrim to cache grass like instructed, ran dyndolod TEXGEN selected generate grass LODs, Ran Dyndolod with grass enabled via expert mode settings.

Grass LOD generated correctly, but is completely grey. There also is a noticeable 20m gap between where the rendered grass ends and the LOD begins.

 

I am using folkvangr grass, although I'm not sure if that affects anything.

[sheson]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:59 PM, WhoWhatWhen said:

Steps taken to generate LOD

Ran xLODGEN to only generate terrain LODs, opened skyrim to cache grass like instructed, ran dyndolod TEXGEN selected generate grass LODs, Ran Dyndolod with grass enabled via expert mode settings.

Grass LOD generated correctly, but is completely grey. There also is a noticeable 20m gap between where the rendered grass ends and the LOD begins.

 

I am using folkvangr grass, although I'm not sure if that affects anything.

Read https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs which log and debug log to upload when making posts.

Check that the generated grass LOD billboards look correct, use better GrassBrightnessTop* or GrassBrightnessBottom* settings as explained at https://dyndolod.info/Help/Grass-LOD. If all 3 values for top or bottom are the same, then the colortone of the grass LOD billboard is not changed. If ENB is used, disable to test its affect.

As explained at https://dyndolod.info/Help/Grass-LOD, grass LOD starts either beyond the active cells (uGridsToLoad) or beyond the large reference grid (uLargeRefLODGridSize) depending on the Mode that was in the DynDOLOD advanced options. Set the DynDOLODGrassMode in the NGIO INI accordingly so that full grass renders to where grass LOD starts.

Make sure grass cache files have been generated for those cells.