GUIDE [WIP] DDSopt & Texture Overhauls

[z929669]

Discussion thread:
DDSopt Guide by STEP
Wiki Link

---

 

GET DDSopt:
Github Pre-release versions
Official Nexus versions (select pre-release update 4)

[z929669]

As for "If you are lazy and have concerns about your VRAM, you can skip to step 8 below", I don't think it's helpful to suggest people who'd rather download one of the HRDLC Optimised packs, rather than go through all the hassle of following the steps manually when no specific or significant benefit is identified are lazy (and indeed using HRDLC Optimised seems the sensible choice in terms of reducing VRAM usage).

 

Ahh, but here is the real kicker: DDSopt actually IMPROVES some of the vanilla textures. I still have to verify IF these kinds of corrections are apparent in Vano89's Optimized (evidence of DDSopt), but for ex. fir trees in vanilla are wrong, and this is corrected by DDSopt'imization. This is a result of the mipmap adjustments that DDSopt makes to images as they are reduced. You can see the differences:

Vanilla HRDLC before & after DDSopt (load both images and switch back & forth quickly to see the rather large difference. This is not apparent at close-up foliage and more pronounced as foliage distance view increases).

 

Likewise, do the same with these before / after images (look at the ground as you switch back & forth)

[z929669]

z - Just need some clarification.

In section 2.4 - Texture Fixes, you extract the two fixed texture files from the link into their respective folders within the optimized STD textures folder, right?

 

If that's the case, let me know and I'll add a line or two in the wiki providing that direction.

 

 

Yes, need to download those and replace originals.

[z929669]

@Z I need a specific place to link to in the ddsopt guide for step 6, any recommendations?

 

I think that you picked the right place. I also added a note to users redirected from that part of the SIG to get them into the DDSopt workflow correctly.

[doveman]

Ahh, but here is the real kicker: DDSopt actually IMPROVES some of the vanilla textures. I still have to verify IF these kinds of corrections are apparent in Vano89's Optimized (evidence of DDSopt), but for ex. fir trees in vanilla are wrong, and this is corrected by DDSopt'imization. This is a result of the mipmap adjustments that DDSopt makes to images as they are reduced. You can see the differences:

I don't see how that's a "kicker" that justifies manually running the textures through DDSopt, when you admit that Vano89's Optimized may well contain these corrections already. If you discover it doesn't, then that's a different matter.

 

I do see the difference in the trees, although it's hard to say which is "right". The Vanilla ones are more "full", which might look better to some people, although after flicking between them for a while I think I prefer the post-DDSopt ones. Of course I might be influenced by knowing that this is the "right" image though ;)

 

I can clearly see the difference on the ground in the second set of images, although if I hadn't seen the DDSopt'd one I doubt I'd think there was anything wrong with the Vanilla one. I guess these little extra details all add up and make the world a bit nicer to look at though.

[z929669]

@doveman

You need to review the official DDSopt doc. Then you would have an idea about why the fuller tree foliage is a manifestation of less-than-ideal mipmap scaling. The ground diff in widhelm is fairly striking. You have to load the images in your browser (or better yet, you desktop) and switch back & forth quickly.

 

I cannot find any justification to NOT run all vanilla through DDSopt, as Vano89 is not a complete set of vanilla AND he has purposefully chosen reduced mipmap thresholds as his max textures in many cases. I will test to settle once and for all for those two examples, but regardless, there will be many subtle effects of DDSopt that I am not even aware of.

 

For further examples, go out to the guide and look at the diffs between STD/OSTD and HRDLC/OHRDLC, using the back & forth method I described. You will see many subtle diffs that are largely reflective of mipmap adjustments I believe.

[doveman]

@z929669

 

I'm sure I'd understand the technical reasons behind it if I read that, but to my mind if I have to read technical docs to care then it's not that important. If I can't see a difference that I care about in the images, then it just doesn't seem significant enough to worry about to me. I was looking at some SMAA comparison images (not Skyrim-related) the other day and couldn't see a single difference and if I can't see a difference studying a static image I'm sure I won't whilst playing the game.

 

As I said, I can see the differences in the images you posted, I'm just not sure that I'd be aware of them whilst playing unless I'd studied comparison images endlessly and I think I'd rather be playing Skyrim. I obviously want to get as good quality as possible without having to spend too much time to achieve that, hence why I love STEP as it saves me having to compare all the mods myself.

 

I'll probably end up running the textures through DDSopt sometime anyway, just so I can forget about it. I'm just saying I haven't really seen enough evidence to be sure it's actually worth the effort. ;)

[Vond]

Decided to run V4NO's optimized HRDLC textures through DDSOPT, to see if any changes are made, as I hadn't seen that discussed here before. If it has and I simply missed it whilst browsing half-heartedly then I apologize. It seems DDSOPT detects quite a few "excess mip-levels" that it removes from the textures, although most files simply says "Texture is optimized". There's also a few "Automatic greyscale conversions".

Anyone with more know-how into how textures work mind sharing what difference (if any) removing excess mip-levels has?

[z929669]

for vano (this is the entire FULL BAIN) ... not much altered (only a 52k diff) Probably wouldn't notice anything in game. Excess mips and corrections may be noticeable, but not likely, I'd guess:

 

 

Final report "D:\_BACKUP\Skyrim Mods\DDSopt\Bethesda Hi-Res Optimized --FOR EVERY VERSION---9080-1-1\out":

processed files: 2140

modified textures: 1995

fixed textures: 20

fixed files: 0

broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones)

planar (1x1) textures: 0

changed texture formats: 1

i/o delta: -54044 bytes

tex delta: -47300 bytes

[Vond]

Hm, your results differ from mine. Yet I know we have the same constraints set up. Here's mine (I removed the ..actors\characters folders before doing it since I don't use any of those files at all anyway due to mods):

 

 

Final report "E:\DDSOpt\out":

processed files: 2094

modified textures: 1949

fixed textures: 0

fixed files: 0

broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones)

planar (1x1) textures: 0

changed texture formats: 3

i/o delta: -942049 bytes

tex delta: -921120 bytes

[z929669]

you have at least one different constraint. Note that you changed 3 versus my 1 tex format

 

Are you set to "Skyrim" under Game menu? (That is the only one I did not include in my screens, and I just confirmed my settings are identical to those)

[Vond]

Yep, it's set to Skyrim. Looked at your settings after I noticed your results differed from mine, is how I knew the constraints were the same. :) Very odd!

 

Here's the 3 files that had changed formats for me:

 

 

 

# mythicdawn_robe_torso.dds ###################################################

E:\DDSOpt\in\HRDLCopt\00 Core files\Textures\clothes\robemythicdawn\mythicdawn_robe_torso.dds

processing:

Format : DXT5 to DXT1

Dimensions : 1024x1024 - 11 levels

 

notes:

Automatic dropped alpha-channel.

delta: 699064 bytes less

 

 

 

 

# riftenlattice01_n.dds #######################################################

E:\DDSOpt\in\HRDLCopt\02 Hybrid + Vanilla NM files\textures\architecture\riften\riftenlattice01_n.dds

processing:

Format : DXT5 to DXT1

Dimensions : 512x512 - 10 levels

 

notes:

Automatic dropped alpha-channel.

delta: 174776 bytes less

 

 

 

 

# treepineforeststumpdirt01.dds ###############################################

E:\DDSOpt\in\HRDLCopt\06 'trees' Vanilla\Textures\landscape\trees\treepineforeststumpdirt01.dds

processing:

Format : DXT5 to DXT1

Dimensions : 256x256 - 9 levels

 

notes:

Automatic dropped alpha-channel.

delta: 43704 bytes less

 

[z929669]

Yep, it's set to Skyrim. Looked at your settings after I noticed your results differed from mine, is how I knew the constraints were the same. :) Very odd!

 

Here's the 3 files that had changed formats for me:

 

 

 

# mythicdawn_robe_torso.dds ###################################################

E:\DDSOpt\in\HRDLCopt\00 Core files\Textures\clothes\robemythicdawn\mythicdawn_robe_torso.dds

processing:

Format : DXT5 to DXT1

Dimensions : 1024x1024 - 11 levels

 

notes:

Automatic dropped alpha-channel.

delta: 699064 bytes less

 

 

 

 

# riftenlattice01_n.dds #######################################################

E:\DDSOpt\in\HRDLCopt\02 Hybrid + Vanilla NM files\textures\architecture\riften\riftenlattice01_n.dds

processing:

Format : DXT5 to DXT1

Dimensions : 512x512 - 10 levels

 

notes:

Automatic dropped alpha-channel.

delta: 174776 bytes less

 

 

 

 

# treepineforeststumpdirt01.dds ###############################################

E:\DDSOpt\in\HRDLCopt\06 'trees' Vanilla\Textures\landscape\trees\treepineforeststumpdirt01.dds

processing:

Format : DXT5 to DXT1

Dimensions : 256x256 - 9 levels

 

notes:

Automatic dropped alpha-channel.

delta: 43704 bytes less

 

 

 

My guess is that we are using different versions of the original, (my version is in the path).

here is mine:

 

 

# mythicdawn_robe_torso.dds ###################################################

D:\_BACKUP\Skyrim Mods\DDSopt\Bethesda Hi-Res Optimized --FOR EVERY VERSION---9080-1-1\in\00 Core files\Textures\clothes\robemythicdawn\mythicdawn_robe_torso.dds

Format : DXT1

Dimensions : 1024x1024 - 11 levels

 

notes:

Texture was optimized.

 

 

 

 

# riftenlattice01_n.dds #######################################################

D:\_BACKUP\Skyrim Mods\DDSopt\Bethesda Hi-Res Optimized --FOR EVERY VERSION---9080-1-1\in\02 Hybrid + Vanilla NM files\textures\architecture\riften\riftenlattice01_n.dds

Format : DXT1

Dimensions : 512x512 - 10 levels

 

notes:

Texture was optimized.

 

 

 

 

 

# treepineforeststumpdirt01.dds ###############################################

D:\_BACKUP\Skyrim Mods\DDSopt\Bethesda Hi-Res Optimized --FOR EVERY VERSION---9080-1-1\in\06 'trees' Vanilla\Textures\landscape\trees\treepineforeststumpdirt01.dds

processing:

Format : DXT5 to DXT1

Dimensions : 256x256 - 9 levels

 

notes:

Automatic dropped alpha-channel.

delta: 43704 bytes less

 

 

[Vond]

Odd indeed. The 2 that were changed for me and not for you were already at DXT1 for you somehow, and DXT5 for me. I'm quite confused by this to say the least.

[z929669]

sorry, I edited my previous... look again (had to post to see it with less noise before qualifying)

[Vond]

Bethesda_Hi-Res_Optimized__--FOR_EVERY_VERSION---9080-1-1 is my version aswell. I think what I'll do is redownload it once Nexus starts working again and try once more. Will also re-download DDSOPT aswell for this.