Merged Patch SSEdit Plugin Loading Limit Question

[Arel]

Hi everyone, I am trying to create a merged patch form my game but the SSEdit seems to dislike my mod count and gives me this error.

I've been researching for quite a while and I am pretty confused and overwhelmed so I feel like I needed to ask this to more experienced people.

There is a loverslab post that says something like creating 2 merged patches? I didn't really understood what was trying to be told so I didn't actually do it. I don't know if we're allowed to link loverslab so I am not linking the post at the moment.

Also some say smashed patches are far more superior to the merged and bashed patches which yet I have no idea and even how to compare these with each other and I see the Mator Smash is on LE which I don't know if it is usable in SSE so I hesitate on that. I'd like your opinions and advise if possible.

I've created my ultimate version of modded Skyrim but of course I need this merge patch to get me started on resolving conflicts so I can dive in to the manual fixing phase and forward the needed/preferred records. I've created few patches before for SkyTEST, Animal Tweaks, NARC and Faction Fixes Vanilla to work together but I don't really know about merged patches.

I'll create a merged patched then create a bashed patch with Wyre, if I can solve this issue that is.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Arel

[z929669]

1 hour ago, Arel said:

Hi everyone, I am trying to create a merged patch form my game but the SSEdit seems to dislike my mod count and gives me this error.

I've been researching for quite a while and I am pretty confused and overwhelmed so I feel like I needed to ask this to more experienced people.

There is a loverslab post that says something like creating 2 merged patches? I didn't really understood what was trying to be told so I didn't actually do it. I don't know if we're allowed to link loverslab so I am not linking the post at the moment.

Also some say smashed patches are far more superior to the merged and bashed patches which yet I have no idea and even how to compare these with each other and I see the Mator Smash is on LE which I don't know if it is usable in SSE so I hesitate on that. I'd like your opinions and advise if possible.

I've created my ultimate version of modded Skyrim but of course I need this merge patch to get me started on resolving conflicts so I can dive in to the manual fixing phase and forward the needed/preferred records. I've created few patches before for SkyTEST, Animal Tweaks, NARC and Faction Fixes Vanilla to work together but I don't really know about merged patches.

I'll create a merged patched then create a bashed patch with Wyre, if I can solve this issue that is.

I find Merged Plugin Guidelines for Personal Use to be a very good and practical reference for doing what you want using a couple of approaches, but also review The Method.

We usually do patching and merging manually rather than using tools like Mator Smash and the like. These tools are handy for people that are experienced, but I find that it's just as much work and possibly even more, since you can never rely on any batch process to handle everything correctly. You still need to set things up properly and carefully review the results. I feel much better knowing what I have done myself and maybe comparing my own results with the results from a batch-processing tool.

We also have several relevant guides on our wiki, but they are in need of updates:

• https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/Guide:Merging_Plugins
• https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/Guide:XEdit
• https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/Guide:Basics_of_Resolving_Conflicts

 

[Arel]

2 hours ago, z929669 said:

I find Merged Plugin Guidelines for Personal Use to be a very good and practical reference for doing what you want using a couple of approaches, but also review The Method.

We usually do patching and merging manually rather than using tools like Mator Smash and the like. These tools are handy for people that are experienced, but I find that it's just as much work and possibly even more, since you can never rely on any batch process to handle everything correctly. You still need to set things up properly and carefully review the results. I feel much better knowing what I have done myself and maybe comparing my own results with the results from a batch-processing tool.

We also have several relevant guides on our wiki, but they are in need of updates:

• https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/Guide:Merging_Plugins
• https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/Guide:XEdit
• https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/Guide:Basics_of_Resolving_Conflicts

 

Thank you for your valuable answer, I'll try the methods and report back.

[Arel]

19 hours ago, z929669 said:

I find Merged Plugin Guidelines for Personal Use to be a very good and practical reference for doing what you want using a couple of approaches, but also review The Method.

I am applying "The Method" and it seems to go on pretty well, I am not seeing any conflicts so far but of course that doesn't mean there isn't any problem but I think this is better than before.

For instance: I have Elemental Staffs mod and it was just reverting the name changes made by WACCF, it is not something of a big deal but the method provides a good way to deal with even the little things. I liked it although in some places I am not really sure if a change is good or bad. I have Better Dynamic Ashes but it's position data was getting changed by SMIM different than the vanilla and the Better Dynamic Ashes(BDA) was using the vanilla values except the "Z" dimension. So I've patched it by getting "X" and "Y" values from SMIM and "Z" values from BDA but as I said I am not really sure if it is good or not, I'd like to see if it worked out but I don't even know where that place is to be honest.

[Greg]

Assuming I am looking at the same thing, this is Hrodulfs House (0400EF57) on Solstheim? In any case, I think these are all sub-blocks of Solstheim so you may be able to copy the EditorID and use coc DLC2HrodulfsHouseExterior01 to go there.

[Mousetick]

It doesn't really make sense to merge Position and Rotation X/Y/Z fields, they both should be treated together as a cohesive whole in the context of their respective mod. Pick the version from the mod you want to win and copy both the whole Position and Rotation fields to your patch, without mixing Position or Rotation or X, Y or Z. It's easier and better.

In general there are 3 possible reasons for mods to change the position/rotation of an object: a) to fix an issue, b) to cosmetically "improve" the scenery, or c) to make space for placing their own objects or as functional requirement for their own purpose. As a rule of thumb, you'd want to keep the version from the mod that's the most impactful and important for your gameplay, that is in order of priority: (c), then (b) then (a).

If several mods conflict on the Position or Rotation and have the same level of impact, the rule of thumb is not good enough and it'll likely be necessary to visually inspect their respective changes in-game or in Creation Kit, in order to make a decision on which one should win.

In your particular case, you'd probably want to keep the Position & Rotation changes from BDA. And since BDA is probably sorted after SMIM by LOOT in your load order, there may be no need to patch the conflict in the first place.

[Arel]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:11 AM, Greg said:

Assuming I am looking at the same thing, this is Hrodulfs House (0400EF57) on Solstheim? In any case, I think these are all sub-blocks of Solstheim so you may be able to copy the EditorID and use coc DLC2HrodulfsHouseExterior01 to go there.

Is that a console command in game?

On 2/16/2022 at 2:53 AM, Mousetick said:

It doesn't really make sense to merge Position and Rotation X/Y/Z fields, they both should be treated together as a cohesive whole in the context of their respective mod. Pick the version from the mod you want to win and copy both the whole Position and Rotation fields to your patch, without mixing Position or Rotation or X, Y or Z. It's easier and better.

In general there are 3 possible reasons for mods to change the position/rotation of an object: a) to fix an issue, b) to cosmetically "improve" the scenery, or c) to make space for placing their own objects or as functional requirement for their own purpose. As a rule of thumb, you'd want to keep the version from the mod that's the most impactful and important for your gameplay, that is in order of priority: (c), then (b) then (a).

If several mods conflict on the Position or Rotation and have the same level of impact, the rule of thumb is not good enough and it'll likely be necessary to visually inspect their respective changes in-game or in Creation Kit, in order to make a decision on which one should win.

In your particular case, you'd probably want to keep the Position & Rotation changes from BDA. And since BDA is probably sorted after SMIM by LOOT in your load order, there may be no need to patch the conflict in the first place.

Hmm I see but the thing is I've patched quite much mods and I've never sorted with LOOT until this point, I haven't really thought about LOOT but when I sort with LOOT now everything conflicts like I haven't even patched anything.

I want to test the game right now but in STEP Guide 1.0.0 says I need to sort with LOOT before generating LOD, so do I have to sort with LOOT now? Should I load "SSE-Terrain-Tamriel-Extend.esm" early on my load order and that'll do the job?

I really wouldn't want to delete my changes but I can't really sort with LOOT now and I wouldn't like to start this The Method from the beginning.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Arel

[DoubleYou]

If you've followed The Method without sorting with LOOT ever, than do not sort with LOOT. The STEP guide provides its own patch based off a LOOT sorted load order, which is why it says to sort with LOOT. Making your own patches by following The Method replaces all that. 

SSE-Terrain-Tamriel-Extend.esm should be loaded high in the load order. It really should not matter exactly where, just with the masters is fine. It is only used for xLodGen and then removed from the load order. 

[Arel]

44 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

If you've followed The Method without sorting with LOOT ever, than do not sort with LOOT. The STEP guide provides its own patch based off a LOOT sorted load order, which is why it says to sort with LOOT. Making your own patches by following The Method replaces all that. 

SSE-Terrain-Tamriel-Extend.esm should be loaded high in the load order. It really should not matter exactly where, just with the masters is fine. It is only used for xLodGen and then removed from the load order. 

Ahh thanks for the clarification, really appreciate it.

[Arel]

On 2/16/2022 at 2:53 AM, Mousetick said:

It doesn't really make sense to merge Position and Rotation X/Y/Z fields, they both should be treated together as a cohesive whole in the context of their respective mod. Pick the version from the mod you want to win and copy both the whole Position and Rotation fields to your patch, without mixing Position or Rotation or X, Y or Z. It's easier and better.

In general there are 3 possible reasons for mods to change the position/rotation of an object: a) to fix an issue, b) to cosmetically "improve" the scenery, or c) to make space for placing their own objects or as functional requirement for their own purpose. As a rule of thumb, you'd want to keep the version from the mod that's the most impactful and important for your gameplay, that is in order of priority: (c), then (b) then (a).

If several mods conflict on the Position or Rotation and have the same level of impact, the rule of thumb is not good enough and it'll likely be necessary to visually inspect their respective changes in-game or in Creation Kit, in order to make a decision on which one should win.

In your particular case, you'd probably want to keep the Position & Rotation changes from BDA. And since BDA is probably sorted after SMIM by LOOT in your load order, there may be no need to patch the conflict in the first place.

What do I do about leveled item conflicts? Do I skip them by creating mod groups then use wyre bash to create a bashed patch?

[DoubleYou]

Making your own leveled lists patch is the best route. You can use a bashed patch and verify/modify in xEdit afterward as well. 

[Mousetick]

1 hour ago, Arel said:

What do I do about leveled item conflicts? Do I skip them by creating mod groups then use wyre bash to create a bashed patch?

I don't know why you'd want to skip them with mod groups. Mod groups hide all conflicts between mods in a group, not only leveled item lists.

You can use Wrye Bash to create a Bashed Patch for leveled item lists, but the results can be incorrect so they need to be reviewed and manually tweaked if necessary.

Since you already know how to make a patch to resolve conflicts in xEdit, you may as well want to do the same with leveled item lists and skip Wrye Bash. It's pretty easy:

• General rule: merge all lists from all mods by copying their items to your patch, so the resulting list is the union of all lists.
• Exception 1: if a mod removes some items from the vanilla list, it's on purpose, and those vanilla items should not be copied to the merged list.
• Exception 2: be mindful of duplicates. If several mods add the same item to a list, you probably want to keep/copy only one of them.
• Exception 3: changes made by mod compatibility patches. If a patch removes/adds/replaces an item from a mod's list, the same change should be reflected in the merged list.

It's not a big deal if the lists are not perfectly merged. If in doubt, put the item in the merged list. The worst that can happen is you'll find more stuff on NPCs and in containers than would be expected, or you'll find multiple copies of the same or very similar items.

Basic tutorial for merging leveled lists in xEdit for Fallout 4 (works the same for SSE): Fallout 4 modding tutorial: How to merge Leveled lists manually with FO4Edit (YouTube).

[Arel]

3 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

Making your own leveled lists patch is the best route. You can use a bashed patch and verify/modify in xEdit afterward as well. 

3 hours ago, Mousetick said:

I don't know why you'd want to skip them with mod groups. Mod groups hide all conflicts between mods in a group, not only leveled item lists.

You can use Wrye Bash to create a Bashed Patch for leveled item lists, but the results can be incorrect so they need to be reviewed and manually tweaked if necessary.

Since you already know how to make a patch to resolve conflicts in xEdit, you may as well want to do the same with leveled item lists and skip Wrye Bash. It's pretty easy:

• General rule: merge all lists from all mods by copying their items to your patch, so the resulting list is the union of all lists.
• Exception 1: if a mod removes some items from the vanilla list, it's on purpose, and those vanilla items should not be copied to the merged list.
• Exception 2: be mindful of duplicates. If several mods add the same item to a list, you probably want to keep/copy only one of them.
• Exception 3: changes made by mod compatibility patches. If a patch removes/adds/replaces an item from a mod's list, the same change should be reflected in the merged list.

It's not a big deal if the lists are not perfectly merged. If in doubt, put the item in the merged list. The worst that can happen is you'll find more stuff on NPCs and in containers than would be expected, or you'll find multiple copies of the same or very similar items.

Basic tutorial for merging leveled lists in xEdit for Fallout 4 (works the same for SSE): Fallout 4 modding tutorial: How to merge Leveled lists manually with FO4Edit (YouTube).

Oh I thought just mashing them all in one would not work alright I'm at it then thanks!

[Greg]

You might look to see what's actually in the leveled lists to determine as best you can what should in the final leveled list. I think about the worst that can happen is that you might have a Bow of Supreme One Show Killing or Armor of Infinite Damage Resistance in a leveled list that you may not want distributed to containers/NPCs all over the world. I doubt you'll find any that's quite this extreme and it's usually nothing worth excessively worrying about.

[Arel]

4 hours ago, Greg said:

You might look to see what's actually in the leveled lists to determine as best you can what should in the final leveled list. I think about the worst that can happen is that you might have a Bow of Supreme One Show Killing or Armor of Infinite Damage Resistance in a leveled list that you may not want distributed to containers/NPCs all over the world. I doubt you'll find any that's quite this extreme and it's usually nothing worth excessively worrying about.

I can filter those issues manually, I am aware of the system that much but there is things that are not clear like CCOR removes Amethyst and adds Gem Garnet then CACO adds Amethyst and I don't know if it should. While I can't see anywhere the Amethyst in the CCOR column the other things are the same item as different levels.

See the example:

 

[Mousetick]

Your patch is ok:

• CCOR removes the vanilla Amethyst, replaces it by a Garnet for arbitrary "balancing" reasons in the mod author's mind, and adds a bunch of its own stuff.
• CACO keeps the vanilla Amethyst and adds a bunch of its own stuff.
• The merged list combines both mods own stuff, and replaces the vanilla Amethyst by a vanilla Garnet, which is the correct interpretation IMHO.

It's fine. You can keep both Amethyst and Garnet if you want, or just one or the other, it won't break the game, it'll only affect the type of loot you can find at level 1 and above.

CACO and CCOR mods were made by the same person but they are inconsistent in this case, only they know the reason for that, if there is any. You can use your own judgement and decide which one is "right": replace the Amethyst by a lesser gem, or not.