SKSE CTD on Save

[bigbobpataki]

As the title says, my SKSE crashes me to desktop every time the game saves. It can be a manual save or a quick save. This has happened both after fully installing the guide and when only installing SKSE and no other mods. When I unload SKSE (and any dependent mods) and launch Skyrim through MO2 the game runs and saves fine with no CTD. I'm on 1.5.97 SE via steam install and using the downgrade patch (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/57618). I'm using Legacy SE build 2.0.20. for SKSE. This is all on a fresh install of Skyrim SE (outside of any UAC folders), on a new computer, using new MO2 instances, profiles, etc (also located outside of UAC) and with both clean and unclean masters. "Fixes" I've tried:

- Reinstalling
- Installing SKSE according to the guide, and then installing SKSE directly into the SSE steam folder using a fresh install.
- Starting a new save, disabling autosaves, using player.kill to respawn (CTD)
- Starting a new save without SKSE, then load back in with SKSE and loading that save (CTD upon saving).

I'm 99% sure its SKSE, but I have no clue what is wrong. I'm hoping its something easy that I've overlooked. Any help/questions are appreciated.
 

[Greg]

I think the first step is to verify that you have installed Legacy SE build 2.0.20 (runtime 1.5.97) per the instructions in the guide. Basically this involves extracting only skse64*.dll, skse64_loader.dll and skse64_steam_loader.dll into the game directory (the same folder with SkyrimSE.exe) and then installing the scripts as a mod in Mod Organizer. You might also verify you don't have anything extraneous in the Skyrim Special Edition folder (like tbbmalloc.dll) that's installed (I think) with Bug Fixes. If you have tbbmalloc.dll installed, you might just rename it to something like tbbmalloc.dll.bak so it's not used. This way you can easily put it back in place later.

Now run the game with nothing other than SKSE enabled to see if this solves the issue with the crash on save.

[bigbobpataki]

1 hour ago, Greg said:

I think the first step is to verify that you have installed Legacy SE build 2.0.20 (runtime 1.5.97) per the instructions in the guide. Basically this involves extracting only skse64*.dll, skse64_loader.dll and skse64_steam_loader.dll into the game directory (the same folder with SkyrimSE.exe) and then installing the scripts as a mod in Mod Organizer. You might also verify you don't have anything extraneous in the Skyrim Special Edition folder (like tbbmalloc.dll) that's installed (I think) with Bug Fixes. If you have tbbmalloc.dll installed, you might just rename it to something like tbbmalloc.dll.bak so it's not used. This way you can easily put it back in place later.

Now run the game with nothing other than SKSE enabled to see if this solves the issue with the crash on save.

Made a fresh install, ran the downgrade patch. I started from steam on just the base install and played through the intro until the point you go off into the keep. Saved in there and it was fine. Ran through again using MO2 to be thorough and it was also fine. I then installed SKSE as a mod using the guide's instructions, enabled it (and it was the only thing enabled) and started skyrim via SKSE in MO2. Sat through the cart ride again and it crashed as I hit the autosave point, a little after you get off the cart.

edit: I'll add in fast that it looks like the game is saving in TMP format when SKSE is enabled, and in the normal ESS format when SKSE is disabled. Not sure if this is relevant but google searching has brought it up before as general reason why saving CTDs. Haven't read anything about it being caused by SKSE though.

Edited January 28, 2022 by bigbobpataki
accidently put response in quote/grammer

[Mousetick]

So this is a completely fresh installation from scratch, without any leftovers from a previous installation? Please confirm.

First off, to save yourself a lot of troubleshooting aggravation, install the USSEP (Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch) and ASLAL (Alternate Start - Live Another Life) mods, add them to your MO test profile in that order, and enable them. Please refer to the STEP guide for download links and installation instructions, or ask if you need further help with that. With ASLAL active, you'll be presented with the character creation screen right after selecting 'New' from the game main menu. Immediately after accepting the character and naming it, you'll be teleported to a cell and the game will autosave. Result: No more waiting for the whole cart ride intro sequence to finish, dozens and dozens of minutes saved in the process.

Second, are you using any kind of antivirus or security software? Turn it/them off completely for testing purposes. Even if you can only turn off temporarily, do it so you can test while it's turned off. Reboot the computer if necessary, but turn it OFF. Don't use exclusions or anything like that - turn it OFF  If you're not sure whether you are using such piece of software, you're probably using the one built into Windows without knowing. Doesn't matter which it is - turn it OFF Then try a new game save.

The save in TMP format is just a consequence of the game crashing while saving. It's a symptom, not a cause.

[bigbobpataki]

34 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

So this is a completely fresh installation from scratch, without any leftovers from a previous installation? Please confirm.

First off, to save yourself a lot of troubleshooting aggravation, install the USSEP (Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch) and ASLAL (Alternate Start - Live Another Life) mods, add them to your MO test profile in that order, and enable them. Please refer to the STEP guide for download links and installation instructions, or ask if you need further help with that. With ASLAL active, you'll be presented with the character creation screen right after selecting 'New' from the game main menu. Immediately after accepting the character and naming it, you'll be teleported to a cell and the game will autosave. Result: No more waiting for the whole cart ride intro sequence to finish, dozens and dozens of minutes saved in the process.

Second, are you using any kind of antivirus or security software? Turn it/them off completely for testing purposes. Even if you can only turn off temporarily, do it so you can test while it's turned off. Reboot the computer if necessary, but turn it OFF. Don't use exclusions or anything like that - turn it OFF  If you're not sure whether you are using such piece of software, you're probably using the one built into Windows without knowing. Doesn't matter which it is - turn it OFF Then try a new game save.

The save in TMP format is just a consequence of the game crashing while saving. It's a symptom, not a cause.

Yes, this is a completely fresh installation. I uninstalled via steam, then deleted the folders in documents/local. I also cleared out anything left in the steam folder (like SKSE). Thanks for the tip on ASLAL, I was already doing that earlier but to be thorough with Greg's advice I left it off for those tests. I can say Rolof's little speech now by heart at least.

I've always turn off windows defender in favor of my actual antivirus but didn't experiment before with my antivirus off. I turned off everything (also making sure windows defender was off in all aspects), restarted, launched Skyrim with ASLAL/USSEP/SKSE and still crash once the game autosaves me in the cell.

edit: Not sure if this is relevant, but trying to delete, in game, the saves that SKSE makes also causes a CTD. Could just be a function of them being all corrupted but ill update this post.

Edited January 28, 2022 by bigbobpataki
more save stuff

[Mousetick]

I missed the fact in your first post that you had already fully installed the guide, sorry.

Are you using a dedicated MO profile for testing? If not, please create a new empty profile, and enable only SKSE, USSEP and ASLAL. To make sure there isn't anything else.

Temporarily move away the file from 'SSE Engine Fixes (Part 1)' which is still in the Skyrim SE game folder: d3dx9_42.dll. It's still active because it's not managed by MO.

Test again.

Temporarily move away the Skyrim configuration files (Skyrim.ini, SkyrimPrefs.ini, SkyrimCustom.ini). They are in MO's profile folder if you configured the test profile with 'Use Profile-specific Game INI Files', or in 'Documents/My Games/Skyrim Special Edition' otherwise. Run 'Skyrim Special Edition Launcher' from MO, adjust display resolution if needed and leave everything else as is. Quit the launcher without starting the game.

Test again.

[bigbobpataki]

16 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

I missed the fact in your first post that you had already fully installed the guide, sorry.

Are you using a dedicated MO profile for testing? If not, please create a new empty profile, and enable only SKSE, USSEP and ASLAL. To make sure there isn't anything else.

Temporarily move away the file from 'SSE Engine Fixes (Part 1)' which is still in the Skyrim SE game folder: d3dx9_42.dll. It's still active because it's not managed by MO.

Test again.

Temporarily move away the Skyrim configuration files (Skyrim.ini, SkyrimPrefs.ini, SkyrimCustom.ini). They are in MO's profile folder if you configured the test profile with 'Use Profile-specific Game INI Files', or in 'Documents/My Games/Skyrim Special Edition' otherwise. Run 'Skyrim Special Edition Launcher' from MO, adjust display resolution if needed and leave everything else as is.

Test again.

No problem, I appreciate your help.

I have been using a dedicated MO profile. I should clarify that this first started to happen on my first install. When I tried everything I could think of, I uninstalled everything (steam uninstall, cleared out documents, cleared out local, uninstalled/reinstalled MO2). The reinstall is what I'm using now. I didn't run BethINI, if thats relevant. I didn't find d3dx9_42.dll from SSE engine fixes, I probably cleared it out during the reinstall.. I moved away the three preferences you mentioned out of the profile and also moved the ones out of the document folder (no SkyrimCustom.ini was found in documents). Still crashing on save.

I'll add that I've been building up a new instance that doesn't have SKSE enabled and is just graphic mods atm and it's working fine.

Edited January 28, 2022 by bigbobpataki
clarity

[Mousetick]

Weird.

It sounds like your installation is ok, so there must be something in your Windows environment that's causing trouble. Try turning off any software that's running in the background and is not part of Windows, particularly cloud storage apps (OneDrive, Google Drive, DropBox and the like...). Some stuff may still live in the background even when switched off via their UI, so an uninstall might be necessary.

By the way, which Windows version are you using?

Post the SKSE logs as attachments. skse64.log, skse64_loader.log, skse64_steam_loader.log are found in My Documents/My Games/Skyrim Special Edition/SKSE/.

Install 'SSE Engine Fixes (Part 1)' and '.NET Script Framework'. Test again and see if a crash log is generated (normally found in NetScriptFramework/Crash/ within MO's overwrite folder when MO  regains control after the crash).

[bigbobpataki]

Unfortunately, I'm using Windows 11. I checked for background stuff (there isn't too much, this is a new computer), closed the only one I found which was OneDrive. I installed the mods you mentioned+the address library for SKSE plugins. Still crashed. I also did a run without the address library, crashed. I'll attach the logs here.

EngineFixes.log skse64.log skse64_loader.log skse64_steam_loader.log

Edited January 29, 2022 by bigbobpataki
clarity

[Mousetick]

It seems my last instructions were wrong  sorry for the mix-up. Let's do this again:

1. Please revert your testing profile to only SKSE + USSEP + ASLAL.
2. Install 'SSE Engine Fixes (Part 2) - skse64 Preloader and TBB Lib' and only Part 2. That is, manually copy d3dx9_42.dll, tbb.dll and tbbmalloc.dll from the .7z archive to the game folder (i.e. folder containing SkyrimSE.exe). Don't install Part 1.
3. Install/enable '.NET Script Framework'.
4. Test again.
5. Post the following logs:

• From 'C:\Steam\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition': d3dx9_42.log.
• From '\Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition\SKSE': skse64.log, skse64_loader.log, skse64_steam_loader.log.
• From MO, select the '.NET Script Framework' mod, right-click and select 'Open in Explorer', then in Windows Explorer, open the NetScriptFramework folder within: NetScriptFramework.log.txt.
• From MO's overwrite folder, inside NetScriptFramework/Crash folder if present: any file found within.

The SKSE log you posted above shows that the game is saving, SKSE is starting to create a co-save, and that process is interrupted because the log abruptly stops there. So nothing new here. I doubt the test above will bring much useful information but it's worth a shot.

Seriously running out of ideas now...

• Do you have an SKSE.ini?
• Try storing game saves inside MO's profile instead of the 'Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition' by checking the relevant option in MO profile (see screenshot below). Test again.
• In Windows Explorer, navigate to 'C:\Steam\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition', right-click skse64_loader.exe and select Properties. In the Properties window, select the Compatibility tab, check the 'Run this program as administrator' option, click OK. Then test again, you should get a UAC prompt, accept or enter admin password if needed.
• Reinstall Windows 10. Just kidding 

[bigbobpataki]

Alright. These logs are with just the four mods you mentioned, plus the dlls from SSE fixes.  Still CTD. I also tried the saving change (I was holding out for this one tbh), didn't work. Same for running as an admin.

You didn't ask for it, but I'll go ahead and post what my skyrim/SKSE folders look like too, maybe I missed something there. I didn't post the scripts but trust me, its all there.

d3dx9_42.log
NetScriptFramework.log.txt
Crash_2022_1_29_15-46-42.txt
skse64.log
skse64_loader.log
skse64_steam_loader.log



edit: Here's more crash logs from the overwrite. Crash_2022_1_29_15-43-16.txtCrash_2022_1_29_15-30-24.txtCrash_2022_1_29_13-12-30.txtCrash_2022_1_29_13-9-23.txt

Edited January 29, 2022 by bigbobpataki
more logs I found

[Mousetick]

I'll read your latest report later if needed, but in the meantime: are you using BitDefender by any chance? Have you tried googling 'skse windows 11'?

First search result, at redddit: Yeah...I gambled and lost (Windows 11 and MO2 and SKSE)

Related:

• https://github.com/ModOrganizer2/modorganizer/issues/1596
• https://github.com/ModOrganizer2/modorganizer/issues/1561

You may want to read all that. Please report back thereafter.

[bigbobpataki]

We got it. Thanks so much Mousetick. Feel dumb overlooking that, good fine.

For anyone else that gets this, like the post I made exceptions for the SE steam folder, MO folder, and related executables+SKSE.

Edited January 30, 2022 by bigbobpataki

[bigbobpataki]

I'm just going to update this fast for people that might use bitdefender as an addition to the above. Other tools like DynDOLOD that are launched through MO2 we're giving me trouble in the past, they wouldn't start at all. When I added them to the exceptions list, the problem was fixed. So if anyone has bitdefender, when you set up your tools and everything just add them as exceptions before you do anything. Adding exception's to their folders doesn't seem to be enough; you have to go one at a time.

[Mousetick]

Forgive me for being nosy, but I can't help wondering. The first thing I asked you to try for troubleshooting, was to turn off whatever security software you were using. This wasn't meant lightly or to put you at risk. This was intended to get this potential culprit out of the way first, because it's the most likely culprit in scenarios like this. So what exactly happened there? Was there something that wasn't clear about the need to. turn. the. damn. thing. OFF?

Furthermore, doesn't your security tool keep you informed about the blocking actions it takes? Isn't there a log or dashboard somewhere? Some notification perhaps? Or does it mess with your system silently and leave you constantly in the dark as to what might have gone wrong?

The amount of time and productivity wasted by these 3rd-party security tools is quite amazing.