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MisterMorden

Question about waterfalls with Dyndolod

Question

What is the furthest extent to which animated dynamic lods created by dyndolod can be made to show?  I believe I read somewhere here that normally after 11 cells they go to static lod?  I'm curious because I'm having an issue where at quite a distance the moving waterfall lod will unload but no static lod model replaces it.  This is using high rules in advanced settings.  I do get a static waterfall on the map though.  Also at this distance the moving windmill blades disappear but the static lod appears at that point.  So with all things working correctly, at some point the animated lods do become plain static lods (before level 32 I mean)?  Any help or insight is appreciated.

Edited by MisterMorden

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10 hours ago, MisterMorden said:

I don't know why but that seems to have put the static waterfalls back into level 16.  I think part of my problem, besides maybe needing to find a balance between fBlock0distance and Far grid settings, is that I was tcl-ing before dyndolod had a chance to activate once I coc'd into an area and what was supposed to be an animated lod wasn't appearing after I got too far from the actual waterfall (that's why no lod at all was showing).  The MCM is so new to me I didn't consider checking activation status.

I'm not supposed to be seeing thin waterfalls from a distance (static or dynamic), is that correct?

Objects have dynamic LOD or static object LOD according to their mesh rules if any and/or their availability of dynamic LOD models (*_dyndolod_lod.nif) or object LOD models (*_lod.nif).

To know what LOD assets were discovered and used for a specific object and LOD Level check ..\DynDOLOD\Logs\DynDOLOD_SSE_Object_Report.txt

If a dynamic object LOD model for a reference is in the Near or Far Grid of dynamic LOD or just stays a large reference depends on if it is a large reference or not and if the upgrade checkbox is checked or not.

fxwaterfallthin*.nif do not have static object LOD models but many of them have dynamic LOD models.

As explained in the DynDOLOD-README.txt, using tcl disables the trigger boxes that are used for dynamic LOD to know where the player is. It means dynamic LOD does not update as long as it is enabled.

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20 minutes ago, MisterMorden said:

What is the furthest extent to which animated dynamic lods created by dyndolod can be made to show?  I believe I read somewhere here that normally after 11 cells they go to static lod?  I'm curious because I'm having an issue where at quite a distance the moving waterfall lod will unload but no static lod model replaces it.  This is using high rules in advanced settings.  I do get a static waterfall on the map though.  Also at this distance the moving windmill blades disappear but the static lod appears at that point.  So with all things working correctly, at some point the animated lods do become plain static lods (before level 32 I mean)?  Any help or insight is appreciated.

Read the doc at ..\DynDOLOD\docs\help\DynamicLOD.html

This explains some of that nuance. I believe it is also addressed a bit from a config standpoint in: ..\DynDOLOD\docs\DynDOLOD_Mod_Authors.html

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10 minutes ago, sheson said:

Read https://dyndolod.info/Help/Dynamic-LOD and https://dyndolod.info/Help/Mesh-Mask-Reference-Rules and https://dyndolod.info/Help/Advanced-Mode

Then check the mesh rules for fxwaterfallbody. You can see that it typically defines FarLOD and object for LOD for Level 8/16.

Windmill fans have no static LOD.

Sorry, meant to say that the windmill tower itself stays but the fans/blades disappear.  I was thinking that was comparable to the animated waterfall unloading and the static lod taking its place, which I'm not getting.

 So if while using this mesh rule,  if I'm not getting a static lod for the waterfall past the far grid am I missing the assets for it?

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19 minutes ago, MisterMorden said:

Sorry, meant to say that the windmill tower itself stays but the fans/blades disappear.  I was thinking that was comparable to the animated waterfall unloading and the static lod taking its place, which I'm not getting.

 So if while using this mesh rule,  if I'm not getting a static lod for the waterfall past the far grid am I missing the assets for it?

As you must know, the windmill building and the windmill fan are separate models. One has static object LOD and the other has dynamic LOD.

You now know that the static object LOD for waterfalls begins with LOD level 8 and dynamic LOD waterfall shows inside the Far Grid.

You most likely set the starting distance of object LOD level 8 too high or the Far Grid distance too short.

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28 minutes ago, sheson said:

As you must know, the windmill building and the windmill fan are separate models. One has static object LOD and the other has dynamic LOD.

You now know that the static object LOD for waterfalls begins with LOD level 8 and dynamic LOD waterfall shows inside the Far Grid.

You most likely set the starting distance of object LOD level 8 too high or the Far Grid distance too short.

I didn't mess with the Near or Far Grid to Load settings in the advanced menu.  So if I have fBlockLevel0 distance set too high (where it ends determining the start of lod level 8, I'm guessing), it would keep me from seeing the static lod once I leave the area defining the Far grid?  Apologies for my lack of comprehension.

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3 hours ago, MisterMorden said:

I didn't mess with the Near or Far Grid to Load settings in the advanced menu.  So if I have fBlockLevel0 distance set too high (where it ends determining the start of lod level 8, I'm guessing), it would keep me from seeing the static lod once I leave the area defining the Far grid?  Apologies for my lack of comprehension.

Far Grid / 2 * 4096 = distance of dynamic LOD in game units
fBlockLevel0Distance = max distance for object LOD Level 4 (or where LOD Level 8 starts)  in game units as explained here https://dyndolod.info/Help/Object-LOD

Just lower fBlockLevel0Distance in the DynDOLOD SkyUI MCM Settings until things appear as desired.

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Well, I appreciate you going through this with me.  Unfortunately I just can't seem to get the object lod for the waterfall to appear once I leave the dynamic lods range or on the map.  I can see the animated waterfall for as far as I can ask during gameplay and I guess that's all that matters, I'm too used to flying around at impossible heights maybe.  I wish I could tell what lod level I'm seeing but even with much lowered fBlockLevel0Distance settings it is the same result...an animated waterfall until the end of the far grid (I'm assuming) and then a total lack of waterfall (no static model "ice block" a la vanilla) and none on the map.  This should happen once level 8 begins if I understand the rule correctly?

When I generate no dynamic lod (the way I was doing it before I started using skse) I get the "ice block" waterfall outside of ulargerefLODgridsize (again, I'm guessing because I'm not positive it's that exact distance in cells) and on the map.  Far grid/near grid wouldn't matter with no dynamic lod, right? 

Anyway, I've taken enough of your time.  You are really appreciated, as are your tools and support for us lucky community members.  Thank you.

Edited by MisterMorden

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49 minutes ago, MisterMorden said:

Well, I appreciate you going through this with me.  Unfortunately I just can't seem to get the object lod for the waterfall to appear once I leave the dynamic lods range or on the map.  I can see the animated waterfall for as far as I can ask during gameplay and I guess that's all that matters, I'm too used to flying around at impossible heights maybe.  I wish I could tell what lod level I'm seeing but even with much lowered fBlockLevel0Distance settings it is the same result...an animated waterfall until the end of the far grid (I'm assuming) and then a total lack of waterfall (no static model "ice block" a la vanilla) and none on the map.  This should happen once level 8 begins if I understand the rule correctly?

When I generate no dynamic lod (the way I was doing it before I started using skse) I get the "ice block" waterfall outside of ulargerefLODgridsize (again, I'm guessing because I'm not positive it's that exact distance in cells) and on the map.  Far grid/near grid wouldn't matter with no dynamic lod, right? 

Anyway, I've taken enough of your time.  You are really appreciated, as are your tools and support for us lucky community members.  Thank you.

See bottom of xLODGen OP to grab a test file that you can use during an alternative terrain LODGen output that will visually indicate your LOD levels in game:

I believe this reflects changes to [Terrainmanager] settings, but it's been a while since I used it.

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1 hour ago, MisterMorden said:

Well, I appreciate you going through this with me.  Unfortunately I just can't seem to get the object lod for the waterfall to appear once I leave the dynamic lods range or on the map.  I can see the animated waterfall for as far as I can ask during gameplay and I guess that's all that matters, I'm too used to flying around at impossible heights maybe.  I wish I could tell what lod level I'm seeing but even with much lowered fBlockLevel0Distance settings it is the same result...an animated waterfall until the end of the far grid (I'm assuming) and then a total lack of waterfall (no static model "ice block" a la vanilla) and none on the map.  This should happen once level 8 begins if I understand the rule correctly?

When I generate no dynamic lod (the way I was doing it before I started using skse) I get the "ice block" waterfall outside of ulargerefLODgridsize (again, I'm guessing because I'm not positive it's that exact distance in cells) and on the map.  Far grid/near grid wouldn't matter with no dynamic lod, right? 

Anyway, I've taken enough of your time.  You are really appreciated, as are your tools and support for us lucky community members.  Thank you.

As I keep explaining, the Near and Far Grid are concepts of dynamic LOD.

So far you have only asked questions how certain things work and didn't really provide troubleshooting information.

In the first post you say " I do get a static waterfall on the map though", now you say "I just can't seem to get the object lod for the waterfall to appear once I leave the dynamic lods range or on the map".

It is unclear what DynDOLOD version you are using or which mods are installed for example.

To check if a LOD level actually has the static water falls, check the BTOs in NifSkope. For example Tamriel.8.8.-8.bto and Tamriel.16.0.-16.bto for example.

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3 hours ago, z929669 said:

See bottom of xLODGen OP to grab a test file that you can use during an alternative terrain LODGen output that will visually indicate your LOD levels in game:

I believe this reflects changes to [Terrainmanager] settings, but it's been a while since I used it.

Thank you for pointing this out, hadn't noticed that before.

 

2 hours ago, sheson said:

As I keep explaining, the Near and Far Grid are concepts of dynamic LOD.

So far you have only asked questions how certain things work and didn't really provide troubleshooting information.

In the first post you say " I do get a static waterfall on the map though", now you say "I just can't seem to get the object lod for the waterfall to appear once I leave the dynamic lods range or on the map".

It is unclear what DynDOLOD version you are using or which mods are installed for example.

To check if a LOD level actually has the static water falls, check the BTOs in NifSkope. For example Tamriel.8.8.-8.bto and Tamriel.16.0.-16.bto for example.

I did confuse the 2 generations (dynamic and not dynamic), sorry....I was mistaken in stating that I was getting the static waterfall on the map when generating dynamic lod.

I am using Dyndolod 3.0 alpha 57 along with Dyndolod resources alpha 16.  Also using Dyndolod.dll and scripts.

I'm not super-well versed in looking at nifskope, but if I'm not mistaken I believe I see the waterfall lods in these?

 

 

Screenshot 2021-12-19 152116.png

Screenshot 2021-12-19 152229.png

Edited by MisterMorden

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I believe I may be a bigger idiot than I first thought...would Upgrade near grid references to far grid box cause this?  When I was doing non dynamic lod this couldn't be checked, but in generating dynamic lod I was checking it.  Just tried without it and I seem to be in business.  Am I insane?

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Please post your SkyrimPrefs.ini TerrainManager settings. If you set the fBlock0Distance too high, you may need to compensate by setting fxwaterfallbody rule to NeverFadeLod or increasing the FarGrid.

image.png

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1 hour ago, MisterMorden said:

Thank you for pointing this out, hadn't noticed that before.

 

I did confuse the 2 generations (dynamic and not dynamic), sorry....I was mistaken in stating that I was getting the static waterfall on the map when generating dynamic lod.

I am using Dyndolod 3.0 alpha 57 along with Dyndolod resources alpha 16.  Also using Dyndolod.dll and scripts.

I'm not super-well versed in looking at nifskope, but if I'm not mistaken I believe I see the waterfall lods in these?

 

 

Screenshot 2021-12-19 152116.png

Screenshot 2021-12-19 152229.png

You should setup NifSkope so it can load the textures from games data folder. Then start it with MO2.

Those shapes look like the frozen waterfalls. If they are in the BTO, they have to show in the game and on the map which uses object LOD level 16 meshes by default.

Make sure that the generated output is not overwritten by anything.

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