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So, first practical question: how to adapt the System Setup guide? It's quite useful, but I still have to change the links to point to FNV tools (like FNV LODGen instead of xLODGen) and add a stwp where the 4 GB RAM enabler is installed, or FNV will CTD. I can adapt the text as a separate (new) article or I can write something like: "Follow System Setup up to step X, then come back to the FNV guide for further instructions". The first option seems more practical. 

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1 hour ago, Majorman said:

So, first practical question: how to adapt the System Setup guide? It's quite useful, but I still have to change the links to point to FNV tools (like FNV LODGen instead of xLODGen) and add a stwp where the 4 GB RAM enabler is installed, or FNV will CTD. I can adapt the text as a separate (new) article or I can write something like: "Follow System Setup up to step X, then come back to the FNV guide for further instructions". The first option seems more practical. 

Utility installation is handled in the Setup Guide. Everything else, like setup steps for the tools are handle on the Game Guide. Tools like xLODGen, xEdit, etc. that have multiple versions hosted are actually the exact same program. They're just hosted for each game. Use launch arguments to decide what game you're using it for. So, users can download xLODGen from the Skyrim content and still use the "-FNV" argument when launching it. This tells xLODGen that it's being ran for a specific game. Valid arguments are: TES3, TES4, TES5, F03, FNV, FO4, SSE, FO76. So just like the notice says in that section of that Guide, don't be concerned if the download source is associated with a game other than that for which you are following these instructions.

The RAM enabler sounds like it would be placed within the Resources mod group.

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What is STEP's current sance on Wrye Bash? It was used by the Skyrim guide up to version 2.10,but I see this is no longer the case. Can I include it in the FNV guide as the go-to patcher, or should I look for another tool? I see that Mator Smah is not part of the System Setup as well (and I am inexperienced with it). 

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1 hour ago, Majorman said:

What is STEP's current sance on Wrye Bash? It was used by the Skyrim guide up to version 2.10,but I see this is no longer the case. Can I include it in the FNV guide as the go-to patcher, or should I look for another tool? I see that Mator Smah is not part of the System Setup as well (and I am inexperienced with it). 

I've taken to doing the "Bashing" by hand. The "Step Patches" are built from the ground up, by hand, so that I know exactly what has gone into it. Bash Patching is useless unless you also set up all the correct Bash Tags on the mods that are missing them; most authors don't include them. The process of trial and error when using it to find the right tags to apply to mods took longer than simply patching it manually. This decision saved timed and lessened the potential for user error. Therefore, WB was finally retired from our Guides.

These are my views regarding patching. It's the same reason the Patches are designed around a default LOOT-sorted plugin order...reducing user steps reduces user support. With that said, you can design it the way you feel is best.

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For quick and dirty testing, I will run Mator Smash, but it isn't perfect. I find I always need to check it and remove a lot of incorrect entries. It does find things that I sometimes miss. I generally make multiple singular compatibility patches, as I generally have plenty of space in my load order. This makes tracking easier, especially with constant mod updates. That way I don't have to check everything each time, and can just check new or updated mods. 

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Bash tags... shivers.

I remember going through EssArrBee' Generate Bash Tags instructions to generate tags for all mods in the load order. One. Plugin. At. A. Time. Needless to say, generating bash tags was a very tedious and time-consuming process but it does result in better quality bashed patches. I think the BASH tags autodetection script is included in xEdit these days, but I imagine it's still just as tedious and time-consuming.

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4 hours ago, Majorman said:

What is STEP's current sance on Wrye Bash? It was used by the Skyrim guide up to version 2.10,but I see this is no longer the case. Can I include it in the FNV guide as the go-to patcher, or should I look for another tool? I see that Mator Smah is not part of the System Setup as well (and I am inexperienced with it). 

I suggest you just develop the mod list and add the mods. When finished, you can check conflicts and patching needs, and we can pitch in to help with patching. Then just provide the patch rather than instructions on how to make custom patches (which is always going to have many caveats, regardless of the tools used). Just so much simpler to provide a patch as a 'mod' like this.

As Tech mentioned, you can just re-use the System Setup Guide for any Bethesda RPG, since all applies (may need to add some explicit instructions for using tools for all games if that doesn't exist now on that page. These are really details that you should not need to mess with until you have the mod list and all mods added to the wiki. Then we can jump in to help. Same goes for establishing a relevant 'seed' guide.

Questions:

  1. What game? Assuming FalloutNV
  2. official guide (adheres to the Step Mandate linked previously) or unofficial guide (deviates from the Step Mandate)?

If it's an unofficial guide and your first one, the guide page version URL will be like: /FalloutNV:Unofficial-Majorman-1.0.0

If it's an official guide, it will be the first and look like: /FalloutNV:1.0.0

It's all covered in the instructions on the game portal page (accessed via Step Portal as linked previously). Again, first step is to add all of the mods with links to resources and forum threads (which we can help with once you have them all in the wiki, or grant you the perms to create the forum mod topics). Don't worry too much about adding the mod instructions to mod pages yet, because they can be influenced by other mods in the list (but you can add instructions at the outset for some stuff, like NVSE).

 

EDIT: Also for mod pages and instructions for those mods:

Each mod gets it's own page on the wiki with link to source and forum thread. Instructions are guide specific, so any guide can use the same mod page but with instructions specific to a particular guide (instructions for that on the mod pages themselves). This way, a particular mod's FOMOD options (for example) could be different from guide to guide.

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4 hours ago, Greg said:

Bash tags... shivers.

I remember going through EssArrBee' Generate Bash Tags instructions to generate tags for all mods in the load order. One. Plugin. At. A. Time. Needless to say, generating bash tags was a very tedious and time-consuming process but it does result in better quality bashed patches. I think the BASH tags autodetection script is included in xEdit these days, but I imagine it's still just as tedious and time-consuming.

Man, I know your pain, yet I do it to this very day whenever I add mods to either FNV or Skyrim :). It's a habit.

1 hour ago, z929669 said:

I suggest you just develop the mod list and add the mods. When finished, you can check conflicts and patching needs, and we can pitch in to help with patching. Then just provide the patch rather than instructions on how to make custom patches (which is always going to have many caveats, regardless of the tools used). Just so much simpler to provide a patch as a 'mod' like this.

As Tech mentioned, you can just re-use the System Setup Guide for any Bethesda RPG, since all applies (may need to add some explicit instructions for using tools for all games if that doesn't exist now on that page. These are really details that you should not need to mess with until you have the mod list and all mods added to the wiki. Then we can jump in to help. Same goes for establishing a relevant 'seed' guide.

Thanks. I am now convinced this is the best way to do it. I've just set up a clean, fresh install of MO2 and all its tools so I can start modding from square 1 while I comply the list. My current load order is cluttered with mods that are either too specific to make it in the final list, or I don't like but don't want to remove mid-playthrough. I also think that a bash patch will mot be necessary with the core module, as I plan to include all equipment add-ons (like Spice of life, Advanced recon) as a separate (optional but recommended) pack. 

Anyway my plan is:

1. Create a modlist in Google sheets, mimicking the table format used by STEP

2. Populate this Wiki with all mods from my list. 

3. Come back here, present my modlist and ask for help to reproduce it as a Wiki modlist. Rework steps 1 and 2 if necessary. 

4. Ask for help transforming the modlist into a full-fledged guide. 

I will be able to do more work during work days for the time being, the weather is nice, the quarantine has been lifted for the time being and I spend most of my weekends in the open. I'm going to start tomorrow and see where I'll go from here. 

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20 hours ago, Majorman said:

Man, I know your pain, yet I do it to this very day whenever I add mods to either FNV or Skyrim :). It's a habit.

Thanks. I am now convinced this is the best way to do it. I've just set up a clean, fresh install of MO2 and all its tools so I can start modding from square 1 while I comply the list. My current load order is cluttered with mods that are either too specific to make it in the final list, or I don't like but don't want to remove mid-playthrough. I also think that a bash patch will mot be necessary with the core module, as I plan to include all equipment add-ons (like Spice of life, Advanced recon) as a separate (optional but recommended) pack. 

Anyway my plan is:

1. Create a modlist in Google sheets, mimicking the table format used by STEP

2. Populate this Wiki with all mods from my list. 

3. Come back here, present my modlist and ask for help to reproduce it as a Wiki modlist. Rework steps 1 and 2 if necessary. 

4. Ask for help transforming the modlist into a full-fledged guide. 

I will be able to do more work during work days for the time being, the weather is nice, the quarantine has been lifted for the time being and I spend most of my weekends in the open. I'm going to start tomorrow and see where I'll go from here. 

1. no need to mimic the table format, just a TXT list will do and the sections to which the mods belong so that you can create the mod pages. The tables get populated automatically later on from the wiki template calls from the guide. The list is just for your own use, but we can help to assign to proper ModGroup Categories if you post it. You will undoubtedly evolve this list as you create the guide and mods on the wiki.

These are the ModGroups

2-4 sounds good. Most of the work is creating the mods and forum topics for each. Once done, it is done forever more. We don't need to do much of this work for Skyrim, since we added those mods to the wiki over the years. Others have added mods for FO and other games as well, but not to the extent of SkyrimLE and SkyrimSE. Also a lot of work is writing the actual guide itself, but this becomes pretty easy when we create the page from another guide. Probably one of the latest Skyrim guides, as the instructions are pretty much exactly the same for Fallout games but for some string replacements.

EDIT: Also, if you prep a text file with all of the mod names (exactly as they appear from the source), authors (comma separated), ModGroup cats, Nexus IDs (or URLs if not from Nexus), I can create the wiki mod pages in bulk. You would still need to edit instructions for those that need them, but many don't need any specific instructions.

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@Majorman

I see you have begun creating mod pages. Looks good, but see my EDIT above. If you list the mods like so, then we can assist with getting these mods into the correct ModGroup categories by consensus (because some mods 'fit' into > 1 cat). Up to you though. Just remember that such mods have some wiggle room if it makes sense to optimize MO prioritization and overrides by using the lowest-numbered group.

Also keep in mind that template calls in mod pages can have 'bad' effects, due to limitations of wiki transclusions. We try to only use FOMOD template calls only where applicable and limit all other template calls. You also want to NOT use wiki headings in mod-page instructions, since they will appear in the guide TOC. You can either use bold or a semicolon at start of line for a pseudo heading:

'''Bold Heading'''

;Bold Heading

Example 1 mod page uses {{icon}} template, which isn't necessary. It looks nice, but it's probably not worth the cost to the max template calls for guides using this mod.

Example 2 mod page uses many {{Fc}} template calls and an {{alert}}, all of which are unneeded, considering the cost.

On any mod page, mouse over these icons for some key info for editors:

image.png

You can save all of the pretty stuff for the actual guide instructions, but use sparingly on mod pages. An average of < 1 template call per mod page on any given guide is ideal. Average of ≥ 1.5 is probably getting into iffy territory for a guide with 250+ mods.

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Thanks, man. I just came here to ask someone to review the mods I've entered and tell me how they fit in. I'm planning on using these pages as templates for future reference. 

 

I'll keep your suggestion to provide a txt file with mods in mind. I'm still working on the modlist, it's taking shape but needs further tinkering. When it's done I'll probably provide all the mods that need no special instructions in order to streamline the process (textures, mostly). 

And another thing, I'm done with the extenders, resources and foundation sections which serve as a "stability" guide of sorts. Can I get someone more experienced to test them already? I am particularly interested in seeing how the Heap Replacer works out across the board with different processors (7th gen Intel i5 here) as I got it working, but the Nexus page is full of complaints and bug reports. If it's still unsafe, the guide will have to resort to using NVSE for heap management, as was the practice until recently. 

Lastly, can you create the forum mod topics in bulk once the guide is ready? I'd rather not mess with forum management. 

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7 hours ago, Majorman said:

Thanks, man. I just came here to ask someone to review the mods I've entered and tell me how they fit in. I'm planning on using these pages as templates for future reference. 

 

I'll keep your suggestion to provide a txt file with mods in mind. I'm still working on the modlist, it's taking shape but needs further tinkering. When it's done I'll probably provide all the mods that need no special instructions in order to streamline the process (textures, mostly). 

And another thing, I'm done with the extenders, resources and foundation sections which serve as a "stability" guide of sorts. Can I get someone more experienced to test them already? I am particularly interested in seeing how the Heap Replacer works out across the board with different processors (7th gen Intel i5 here) as I got it working, but the Nexus page is full of complaints and bug reports. If it's still unsafe, the guide will have to resort to using NVSE for heap management, as was the practice until recently. 

Lastly, can you create the forum mod topics in bulk once the guide is ready? I'd rather not mess with forum management. 

As far as testing FNV mods, most of our avid FO staff aren't active anymore. You may just need to go with it and get more feedback on this kind of thing after release. Always plenty of testers in production if not in dev/test.

We can assist with forum topics. Some of the mods you are putting in likely have forum topics now, so you can search and use the forum topic ID in the mod pages. Correct forum is always Supported Games > GameName > GameName Mods

This can be done later as well, but it's nice to have a place to discuss mod testing, etc. This is the Topic boilerplate for mod topic OPs:

----START---

Discussion topic:

NVSE by DemoRome, IstewieAI, c6-dev, carxt, iranrmrf, jazzisparis, and korri123

Wiki Link


Instructions

----END---

NOTE: I reverted some of your changes to NVSE mod page. You had changed link and authors to SKSE. I believe the corrected source and authors are based on EssArrBees original 'bad' link. If this is not the case, it can easily be reverted via the history. I also fixed the wiki markup list format and replaced all the template calls with 'good' alternatives. I don't know how NVSE should be configured exactly, but I would think our current SKSE64 instructions are a good example. Always copy from 'edit' mode rather than from rendered wiki pages.

 

 

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This is on nvse.silverlock.org:

New Vegas Script Extender (NVSE) v5.0
by Ian Patterson, Stephen Abel, Paul Connelly, and Hugues LE PORS
(ianpatt, behippo, scruggsywuggsy the ferret, and hlp)

Click the Source Code link and the credits are the same as above and the current version is maintained by korri123 (aka Kormákur) and jazzisparis. I do see the names listed in your response (DemoRome et al) listed as committers to the repository.

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OK, z (sorry, can't remember your full nickname), I did some further tweaking to the NVSE instructions. How does it look to you? If it is satisfying, I'll carry it over to the new mods. 

 

FYI I used Skyrim LE as reference up to now,but I think the SE looks better. 

 

In an unrelated note, where can I upload screenshots to use in the wiki. I won't go overboard, but I think I'll need two to supplement some of the mod instructions. 

 

Also, do you have the practice to upload custom. ini files? One mod in particular, lStewieAl's Tweaks has over 200+ options, all toggle-able in an ini. I think in that particular case uploading a custom ini is easier than uploading a wall of text (it took me over 3 hours yesterday to go through all options and decide which to use). 

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7 hours ago, Greg said:

This is on nvse.silverlock.org:

New Vegas Script Extender (NVSE) v5.0
by Ian Patterson, Stephen Abel, Paul Connelly, and Hugues LE PORS
(ianpatt, behippo, scruggsywuggsy the ferret, and hlp)

Click the Source Code link and the credits are the same as above and the current version is maintained by korri123 (aka Kormákur) and jazzisparis. I do see the names listed in your response (DemoRome et al) listed as committers to the repository.

Yes, the link I used is from that page:

NVSE is currently maintained by a group of New Vegas modders: latest releases | source code

... so that is the most relevant version of NVSE, I believe, which is what that mod page is using via the link in my last post

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