bug STEP Skyrim SE Guide v0.3.0b - Official Bug Reports

[sirtechfan]

Edit: Removed this post. Moderators, feel free to delete. Thank you.

Edited May 31, 2020 by sirtechfan

[clchriscl42]

LOOT has removed support for the Unofficial High Definition Audio Project. As a result, LOOT does not correctly order its plugins above the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch. The only way to fix this is to add custom metadata in LOOT to fix the load order. From Nexus:

 

"To load correctly, these need to override vanilla files, and be overridden by all other mods (including USSEP) . . . If you use LOOT, add custom metadata. In the Main tab, under Group, change to 'DLC'. This keeps it as high as possible, which is where it should be."

 

Without this step, there is conflict between USSEP and UHDAP and audio bugs fixed by the former reappear. The guide should be edited to resolve this.

[TechAngel85]

LOOT has removed support for the Unofficial High Definition Audio Project. As a result, LOOT does not correctly order its plugins above the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch. The only way to fix this is to add custom metadata in LOOT to fix the load order. From Nexus:

 

"To load correctly, these need to override vanilla files, and be overridden by all other mods (including USSEP) . . . If you use LOOT, add custom metadata. In the Main tab, under Group, change to 'DLC'. This keeps it as high as possible, which is where it should be."

 

Without this step, there is conflict between USSEP and UHDAP and audio bugs fixed by the former reappear. The guide should be edited to resolve this.

Is there a reason given for it's removable. Seems like an odd thing to do.

[clchriscl42]

Is there a reason given for it's removable. Seems like an odd thing to do.

https://github.com/loot/skyrimse/issues/785

 

Basically, it's because UHDAP rips and redistributes PS4 files (which is against Sony's terms of use).

[TechAngel85]

https://github.com/loot/skyrimse/issues/785

 

Basically, it's because UHDAP rips and redistributes PS4 files (which is against Sony's terms of use).

Hmm...I'd have to argue that the audio doesn't belong to Sony. All that wording is in regards to "PSN Services", so what is defined in the docs as "PSN Services". I'd have to say the files are Bethesda property, not Sony's. Just because it's used on the PS4 doesn't mean Sony owns any part of the software. In all likelihood, they "license" to Bethesda and Bethesda in return "licenses" to them.

 

All in all, there isn't enough information in that report for users to actually determine if things are as they say, or if they're just being overly cautious.

 

EDIT:

PSN Services include PlayStationâ„¢Network ("PSN"), PlayStationâ„¢Store, PlayStationâ„¢Plus, PlayStationâ„¢Music, PlayStationâ„¢Video, PlayStationâ„¢Now, PlayStationâ„¢Vue, and those websites, products and services that SIE LLC, and its affiliates offer through or in connection with PSN or your Account.

 

There not even using the right legal document. Software doc is here: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/softwarelicense/

[TechAngel85]

This is the correct legal doc this should be referring to: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/softwarelicense/

 

This Agreement is between the publisher of the Software ("Licensor") and you. The identity of Licensor can be found on the packaging for physical products (e.g., the Blu-ray game disc box) or on the online store page for downloadable products (e.g., PlayStation®Store game page). This Agreement applies to you unless you and Licensor enter into a separate, valid license agreement, in which case the terms of that separate license agreement will govern.

(This is saying that Sony's Agreement only applies, if the Licensor (Bethesda Softworks/ZeniMax) doesn't have an agreement...they do. We're allowed to mod.)

 

 

If Licensor is Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (“SIE LLC”), this Agreement is between you and SIE LLC. If Licensor is not SIE LLC, then (a) Licensor, not SIE LLC, is solely responsible for the Software...

(which means Bethesda is solely responsible for the game)

 

 

There is no need to go past this point. The document has already told us that the Licensor isn't Sony, and we are governed by that Agreement, not this one.

[clchriscl42]

This is the correct legal doc this should be referring to: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/softwarelicense/

 

This Agreement is between the publisher of the Software ("Licensor") and you. The identity of Licensor can be found on the packaging for physical products (e.g., the Blu-ray game disc box) or on the online store page for downloadable products (e.g., PlayStation®Store game page). This Agreement applies to you unless you and Licensor enter into a separate, valid license agreement, in which case the terms of that separate license agreement will govern.

(This is saying that Sony's Agreement only applies, if the Licensor (Bethesda Softworks/ZeniMax) doesn't have an agreement...they do. We're allowed to mod.)

 

 

If Licensor is Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (“SIE LLCâ€), this Agreement is between you and SIE LLC. If Licensor is not SIE LLC, then (a) Licensor, not SIE LLC, is solely responsible for the Software...

(which means Bethesda is solely responsible for the game)

 

 

There is no need to go past this point. The document has already told us that the Licensor isn't Sony, and we are governed by that Agreement, not this one.

I don't disagree at all with your reasoning, I only posted what they argued in order to elucidate the reason LOOT gave for not supporting UHDAP (which I think is bogus).

 

Regardless, LOOT not supporting it leads to bugs arising for the load order, which is what I'm really reporting on here.

[TechAngel85]

I don't disagree at all with your reasoning, I only posted what they argued in order to elucidate the reason LOOT gave for not supporting UHDAP (which I think is bogus).

 

Regardless, LOOT not supporting it leads to bugs arising for the load order, which is what I'm really reporting on here.

Yeah, I get that. They're just giving users the wrong information, which I'd like to correct for the users. That entire report is wrongly misquoted. It's removal may still be valid, if Bethesda doesn't allow cross-platform porting of assets, but it's the same game and they do it themselves via CC.   I need to go read the Bethesda agreement.

 

As for the mod, it'll likely be removed. We're purposely not including LOOT rules/metadata.

[TechAngel85]

Update on mod removal from LOOT:
I've talked to them and provided the right docs. They're going to look it all over. 

I found no wording restricting cross-platform porting (it's the same game and they do it themselves with CC). The only wording in the Agreements that may make this mods removal valid is, "Game Mods" have to use the Editor (aka Creation Kit) for their creation. Else, the SSE EULA kicks in, which states that you can't make modifications to the software, in whole or in part (meaning making mods is out).
That is paraphrased for you.

It's specifically like this because the only Agreement that supersedes the SSE EULA is the CK EULA, and that is what the wording of those documents say (paraphrased). However, this sort of opens up a "can of worms" because, legally, any mod made outside the CK is not an authorized mod; they break the EULA. This means any mod made specifically and only within xEdit are unauthorized mods. This does scoop up UHDAP, however, it also scoops up a quarter or more of the mods available. Unless they want to create a double standard, I don't see any way for them to exclude UHDAP without also excluding a ton of other mods, per their reason for dropping UHDAP. Any other than that would be, imo and from my understanding of the legal documents, an unfair action. (If you're going to remove one for that reason, remove the rest the violate the same reasoning.)

EDIT:

The only argument I foresee in favor of the "unfair action" of only one mod's removal is, "how do you determine if a mod has only used xEdit for its creation?".

Ultimately, LOOT is their software and they can do want they want, but their actions affect an entire community.

[SaintBourbon]

Update on mod removal from LOOT:

I've talked to them and provided the right docs. They're going to look it all over.

This is great news and I hope it works out. It would be such a shame to lose a mod over this. Thank you for being such a positive and active voice for this community.

[TechAngel85]

This is great news and I hope it works out. It would be such a shame to lose a mod over this. Thank you for being such a positive and active voice for this community.

Bottom line is, there is nothing that says files can or can't be taken from the PS4 game and used on the PC. It's a very grey area right now. I even got one of the BGS staff to comment:

 

|BGS| Cartogriffi

Yesterday at 4:10 PM

​That's an interesting question, but I'll admit I'm not sure how to answer it. We have explicit rules about moving assets between different titles, but I can't think of a case like this. I'm also not familiar with Sony's stance on such things.

 

Therefore, if even the staff can't set it straight for us, then we all have no choice but to remove the mod from the Guide and the LOOT team will leave it removed from LOOT.

 

Users will be free to keep the mod in their mod lists, since it won't affect anything by doing so (and the audio is a lot better). However, we simply can't leave it in the Guide so that we keep ourselves on the "right side" of anything legal.

[alphaniner]

I had been keeping a tab open with issues as I went through, was gonna post when I was done. Then the tab force redirected back to the Bug Reports board. Bloody hell.
 
Here's what I can remember of what I had seen and what I've encountered since:
 
SSELodGen Installation
 
Maybe have user create the output folder that will be used in the xLODGen64.exe Tool Setup Table.
 
Tool Setup
 
In the Tool Setup Table, the output path in the xLODGen64.exe arguments isn't valid even for the Guide.
Regardless, it might be helpful to make sure the user knows the path needs to be modified appropriately.
Maybe it will accept a relative path?
 
BethINI Initial Setup

• Has been updated since guide was written.
• Readme recommends using the Default preset before anything else.
• Reflect Sky is on the Detail tab.
• Snow section is on the Visuals tab.
  • The one option that's enabled by default is recommended.

AMidianBorn Book of Silence (SE)

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• The hotfixes have been integrated into the Main file.
• The path fix is no longer necessary.
• There are now SE versions of all the plugins in Miscellaneous.

Inferno - Fire Effects Redux

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• Installer has changed:
  • Guide shows 3 "Inferno Optional Patches" sections. There is only one.
  • There is an "Inferno Optional Plugin" section.

Vivid Landscapes - Tundra Moss Revised (SE)
 
The SMIM compatibility patch requires a manual install.
 
Audio Overhaul for Skyrim SE

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• No longer contains SKSE directory.

Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• Installer contains new options.

Even Better Quest Objectives SE

Has a patch for aMidianborn Skyforge Weapons, in case the decision is made to start using the converted esp.

MoreHUD Inventory Edition

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• Now has two Main files (BSA and loose files versions).

Lanterns Of Skyrim II

 

Has been updated since the guide was written (Update patch to 2.1).

 

-----
 
In the STEP SE Mod Anthology section of the Main Page, the link to the SE-A - Tools page is out of place.

Edited June 13, 2020 by alphaniner

[Sakiri]

So which version of Lanterns of Skyrim do I want to use? To work with the existing patch, until it's updated? I'm in the middle of the guide(second install, different computer lol) now and got hung up on this one. I don't want to screw something up.

[TechAngel85]

So which version of Lanterns of Skyrim do I want to use? To work with the existing patch, until it's updated? I'm in the middle of the guide(second install, different computer lol) now and got hung up on this one. I don't want to screw something up.

Middle of the Guide? LoSII is at the end of the Guide...are you using the right Guide?

[TechAngel85]

SSELodGen Installation

 

Maybe have user create the output folder that will be used in the xLODGen64.exe Tool Setup Table.

Yes is already been added at the top of STEP 5. I took it out of the spoiler since it could be easy to miss.

 

Tool Setup

 

In the Tool Setup Table, the output path in the xLODGen64.exe arguments isn't valid even for the Guide.

Regardless, it might be helpful to make sure the user knows the path needs to be modified appropriately.

Maybe it will accept a relative path?

The path is correct. It just needs to be created. I've added instructions to the tool's mod page to create the folder.

 

BethINI Initial Setup

• Has been updated since guide was written.
• Readme recommends using the Default preset before anything else.
• Reflect Sky is on the Detail tab.
• Snow section is on the Visuals tab.
  • The one option that's enabled by default is recommended.

I'm aware that BethINI updated and those images need to be updated. Just haven't gotten around to it. I'll look into it today.

 

AMidianBorn Book of Silence (SE)

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• The hotfixes have been integrated into the Main file.
• The path fix is no longer necessary.
• There are now SE versions of all the plugins in Miscellaneous.

 

I've updated the mod page.

 

Inferno - Fire Effects Redux

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• Installer has changed:
  • Guide shows 3 "Inferno Optional Patches" sections. There is only one.
  • There is an "Inferno Optional Plugin" section.

 

Mod page has already been updated.

 

Vivid Landscapes - Tundra Moss Revised (SE)

 

The SMIM compatibility patch requires a manual install.

Updated the mod page.

 

Audio Overhaul for Skyrim SE

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• No longer contains SKSE directory.

 

Updated the mod page.

 

Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• Installer contains new options.

 

Updated mod page.

 

Even Better Quest Objectives SE

 

Has a patch for aMidianborn Skyforge Weapons, in case the decision is made to start using the converted esp.

Nope, STEP has never used that plugin.

 

MoreHUD Inventory Edition

• Has been updated since the guide was written.
• Now has two Main files (BSA and loose files versions).

 

Updated mod page.

 

Lanterns Of Skyrim II

 

Has been updated since the guide was written (Update patch to 2.1).

You shouldn't be using that option, if you are. Therefore, that update file has no bearing on the Guide.

 

In the STEP SE Mod Anthology section of the Main Page, the link to the SE-A - Tools page is out of place.

It is, but it's not. That's just how it's listed within our back-end framework. I don't know why. Z did all that work.

 

Thanks for the report!