SRG_Passthru .nifs

[MKIIV]

Hi,

So i been trying to run 3d ultra trees on Oldrim. I run Enhanced Vanilla Trees, which is last in my load order. I have installed Indistinguishable Vanilla billboards with srg over it with the corresponding billboards with the exact same options as the main core install. After trying to run dyndolod with ultra trees option i get in the log a bunch of 3d lod not founds for most trees except for aspens and treepineforest01. Dyndolod finishes without errors basically and i run the plugin and have all tree billboards and treepineforest01 is a 3d tree. Never checked the Aspens, but assume they are working.  But the rest of the passthru nifs are not found.

After investigating, the weird thing is, in the Enhanced Vanilla Trees archive there is only one folder with 107 passthru .nifs, but in my lod folder i have 742 srg_names passthru .nifs. I have no idea where they came from or does dyndolod generate them?

I've been at this for 3 or 4 days and i had looked in this folder before but just didn't realize that EVT only had 107 passthru nifs in the archive when i decided to try to manually install everything just to see what was up, then i realized all the extra passthru nifs in my skyrim/date/ dyndolod /lod/trees  folder. I have all the default dyndolod nifs that come in the dyndolod archive in that folder as well as verified out of the 742 the ones that actually came in the EVT archive are also in there.

 

At a loss as to how all the extra ones got there, but also why dyndolod is looking for nifs with the same name, but the _9absdf3 whatever hash number at the end of the missing 3d lods in the dyndolod log do not match with the passthru nifs i have in my folder. Like what is that number at the end of the nif it is searching for mean and how do i not have the right ones when i installed everything in the order that the videos and manual etc showed?

 

Also as i was writing this i tried a few times with dyndod and no 3d trees and now all of a sudden it gives an error with a plugin and same load order i've ran it a dozen times successfully, except for the trees. It begins to hurt my brain.

[TechAngel85]

The passthru meshes are what generates the trees. By default, EVT was designed to install all of them in the mod (whether they're needed or not). However, I'm not sure where the 700+ files would have came from. I'd recommend reinstalling EVT to ensure it's installed correctly.

 

The digits at the end of the passthru files correspond to the FormID of the tree, if I remember correctly. It's been a while since I worked with them.

[MKIIV]

Yeah i reinstalled it a few times now. I just don't get where the other srg_ nifs could have came from unless dyndolod creates them on demand, or xlodgen did as i was using that previously to using dyndolod. I have installed Great Whiterun Forest, but that file doesn't contain any passthru meshes, so it's just mystifying how they go there and with different form id's.

[MKIIV]

Ugg, always when i get to wits end and finally ask a question, which i hardly ever do, i always find the answer right after myself. Not that i haven't read and read and read, but i think i just need a break, lol.

I was thinking before maybe i could just rename the passthroughs with the id in the log, and re reading the trees manual, it says exactly that. :|

[sheson]

DynDOLOD does not generate passthru_lod files. DynDOLOD Resources has some of them for vanilla trees and a few mods. Others you have installed with 3rd party mods.

 

Use MO.

 

I suggest to read DynDOLOD\Docs\trees.ultra\DynDOLOD-Trees.html to learn how tree 3D LOD works.

[MKIIV]

DynDOLOD does not generate passthru_lod files. DynDOLOD Resources has some of them for vanilla trees and a few mods. Others you have installed with 3rd party mods.

 

Use MO.

 

I suggest to read DynDOLOD\Docs\trees.ultra\DynDOLOD-Trees.html to learn how tree 3D LOD works.

Yes, thank you. I have been re reading it again. Takes multiple times to sink in. I been modding games for 21 years and this game is/can be so frustrating. Too many digits. Kudos to you for this though i can't believe you sorted it all out, let alone wrote such thorough documentation. I think i'm more impressed with the documentation and forethought as people don't even know what a massive task that is, and you basically thought of everything. Seriously, impressed. :D

 

Alas i still have no idea how those Extra passthru files got there. I do not have on my machine any mod that has any extra "Srg_ passthrough" files in them them except for Enhanced Vanilla Trees, which only contains 107 in the zip install. Let alone 600+ more. I had 700 plus "srg_" passthrough files. They were just copies of like, srg_treepineforest04 passthru XXXXXX.nif, all with different ID numbers at the end. So like 10 treepineforest04 with these ID numbers match nothing. Something created them and it wasn't from any mod archive i installed, that is a fact.

 

I mean i only have two things that have trees at all ever installed on my system and this Skyrim is the same Skyrim folder across 6 years, and that is SFO from years ago before Dyndolod existed ( i only use some of the flora) and EVT, which is the only trees i use. Before that i use no tree mods.

 

The only thing i can think is that Tes5xLODGEN created them? I don't know, but i was using that before i decided to take the leap to dyndolod, and i tried the process trees as Object option once or twice just to see what it was. Could that have created them?

I didn't install them and i didn't add them manually so there is no explanation how they got there. I have every mod and the archive i have installed over 6 years. Some of them date back to 2013. There are no srg trees included in any of them except EVT.

 

I only run about 100 mods and most of them are the basic ones, smim and such and the basic fixes. A lot of the stuff i have i installed manually, just textures that i've made or my weathers and lighting stuff i've done in CK. I usually just drag and drop them manually as they will never be "uninstalled" once i'm happy with them. Just always have done it that way. I've installed this same copy of my main Skyrim folder with all my mods and inis etc in it by drag and dropping over a new Skyrim install and overwriting everything across 3 systems over 6 years. I sort my load order manually, run finis, and it's always worked. So that's how hands on i am about what is installed.

 

I've also never ran any LOD thing other than Xlodgen, and i only started using that like 2 weeks ago. My original evt was installed before dyndolod was created i think, and i just reinstalled the newer version with the passthroughs in it. 107 of them. And that's the only mods or anything i've ever done having to do with trees save for trying SFO many years back and sticking with Skyrim default vanilla trees until EVT came out. And the only mods i've installed in years now is i reinstalled updated EVT for dyndolod, and Whiterun Hold Forest. That's it, and there are no passthrough nifs included in Whiterun Hold Forest. I even extracted the BSA to see what was in it and i don't even use the BSA or any of the files in it, only the .esp.

 

Black Magic i tell you.

 

So anyway, i did remove all the passthrough files and install only the ones from EVT and Dyndolod resources again, and just copied and renamed all the missing passthroughs by the missing IDs in the log and  i got 3d trees... aand, it took a huge dump on my system, lol. Of course i kind of expected it, but hey that first minute or so looked glorious.

 

Question: How big is normal for Objects generation output? Like the whole Objects output folder? If i use high settings it tops out about 10GB. If i use medium settings and custom 3d tree profiles ( some static, mix with some billboards) it still tops out about 9Gb. With no 3d trees ( well one 3D tree ) it tops out at 7GB. I crash out of memory with more than the one 3d tree. It might just be too much for ENB boost and the memory patches to wrangle. I am running a highly modified LTSB windows system pre creators update so i am limited with Dx9.

 

Thanks btw. I cracked up when i got in game and saw the easter egg. A good one.

Edited March 28, 2019 by MKIIV

[sheson]

There is no tool that creates passthru_lod files automatically. The DynDOLOD archive includes pas scripts that a user needs to run with xEdit to copy existing files to passthru_lod. xEdit/xLODGen do not know anything about them.

passthru_lod files ship in mods archives, nothing special about that. 

Use a proper mod manager and there won't be any confusion were particular files came from.

EVT was first uploaded June 2016. DynDOLOD exists since 2014.

The LOD files size depend highly on settings and load order. Default High settings are usually
If the files are that huge it might mean there are full models of tree being used for 3D tree LOD.

Edited March 28, 2019 by sheson

[soupdragon]

 

The digits at the end of the passthru files correspond to the FormID of the tree, if I remember correctly. It's been a while since I worked with them.

They're actually the CRC32 value of the original tree mesh they were generated from, if the value doesn't match the CRC32 of the corresponding full tree model they'll get ignored by DynDolod.

[MKIIV]

There is no tool that creates passthru_lod files automatically. The DynDOLOD archive includes pas scripts that a user needs to run with xEdit to copy existing files to passthru_lod. xEdit/xLODGen do not know anything about them.

passthru_lod files ship in mods archives, nothing special about that. 

Use a proper mod manager and there won't be any confusion were particular files came from.

 

EVT was first uploaded June 2016. DynDOLOD exists since 2014.

 

The LOD files size depend highly on settings and load order. Default High settings are usually < 1GB BTO meshes for Tamriel.

 

If the files are that huge it might mean there are full models of tree being used for 3D tree LOD.

 

Oh wow, didn't think Dyndolod was that old.

 

All i can say is, as far as the passthru nifs, the only way i installed them is if they came in EVT. Besides uninstalling downloading the newest version and re installing EVT, dyndolod and Whiterun Forest Hold i haven't installed any other mods in years and i've never installed any tree mod but EVT and SFO way back when it first came out version 1. something and that's the same thing i have installed to this day. I never used the trees. Only the foliage. I only have 100 mods basically, and most of them are UI, tools, armors or followers and animation, weathers and lighting. The biggest mod i have is probably SMIM. Of which i mainly just use the nifs, i replaced a lot of the textures on each of them and don't even even have the esp installed so it can never be uninstalled by accident. Only by hand manually by me because i changed so many of the files. So i am in full control of this install and what i am doing and not doing. It has basically been an ongoing file folder for 6 years, some things will never will be uninstalled and are just part of my base game now.

 

When i build a new pc i literally install Skyrim and drag a copy of my modded Skyrim folder all 32 Gb of it over a fresh install and overwrite and add everything to it in one swoop. Then i sort my load order manually, run finis and it works perfectly every time. So while i don't have a ton critical stuff i need to use a manager for i do use it for some stuff with a lot of options. Like EVT trees.

 

I just decided this last week to try dyndolod and these 3d trees for the first time. Before that the only tree mod i ran was the same install of EVT basic vanilla option for years now and only thing i did is download the newest one uninstall the old one and install the new one, all with NMM. I check every file i download and i know what's in them. If its textures i place them by hand. If it's complicated or has a lot of options i usually use NMM. The EVT i downloaded contains 107 passthru nifs for dyndolod. Before that i never had a single passthru nif on my pc, nor a dyndolod folder. I haven't installed any mods in to this folder for years now until this week i installed EVT, Dyndolod and The Whiterun Hold Forest, the last of which which contains zero passthru nifs. Only Dyndo lod, and the only ones affected or duplicated somehow are the EVT ones.  Removing them caused no error in Dyndolod, it's true Dyndolod didn't even know they were there.

 

However, fact remains out of nowhere 600+ more than the actual 107 passthru nifs contained in the EVT archive named srg_treepine XXX passthru with ID numbers that point to nothing. No one else has touched my PC.

 

I understand you get a lot of ridiculous questions. But this is fact. I did NOT install these files. They were created somehow, a few days ago, they did not  come out of any archive or mod i installed. The 107 that come with EVT did, the 600+ duplicates with different IDs did not.

 

I also know this is fact not only because i've spent 5k+ hours over the years in this folder structure but before i decided to try xlodgen and dyndolod i dragged a copy of my Skyrim entire folder to another drive for backup. And that entire game folder contains No Dyndolod folder and no passthru nifs because the  EVT install in it is from years ago and the install is the most basic non enb, non dyndolod vanilla install option you can choose.  I never heard of or saw a passthru nifs until a few days ago in my life.

 

The file creation date on all these 600 errant duplicate srg_treeXXXpassthru_XXXX.nifs is a few days ago. March 24th, 2019 1:31 am. Which was exactly in the middle of the days i stared doing this trees stuff, first testing out in Xlodgen generating billboards to take into photoshop, and then taking the leap to Dyndolod to try the 3d tree option.  So i was running xlodgen or possibly dyndolod by that time, but all  within the last week. Before that i never ran any lod program for Skyrim.

 

My thought was no that xlodgen "created" the passthru niffs because i know they are 3d models, but that it somehow "duplicated" of the 107 actual nifs from EVT and then added different IDs to them in some process. But then Dyndolod doesn't even see them.

 

That's why i brought it up really, there's no explanation to where they came from. I open and have checked every single mod i've ever  downloaded before i installed them, if not even sometimes install them by hand because i know what i have and what needs not to be overwritten. Half of it i created or modified so whats in there was place by me specifically and i am very careful not to overwrite any of it. If a mod has something that overwrites something i made, i take that part out and install the pieces i want or whatever. That's why i don't use NMM that much. I know what i have and i pretty much know it like the back of my hand.

 

Anyway, not trying to argue, but it is what it is. 600 files appeared out of thin air, that i have proof of them not existing prior, and i did not copy and rename 600 nif files with 8000 hash numbers in my sleep.

 

 

But anyway. I did re run Dyndolod with almost all my esps unchecked, even though most of them are having nothing to do with LOD or meshes, just the main Skyrim and the official content, srg trees (EVT), water, and waterfalls, whiterun spruce and whiterun mansion. I turned off the Forest Mod too, ran Medium settings, no glow or windows or extras, select a few trees to be 3d, the rest billboards. Tamriel Objects folder output now at 7.38 GB down from 10Gb. Just for the hell of it i tried xlodgen separately just see see the difference and it is at 244 Mb Objects output lol. I realize it should be smaller, but just though it funny.

So still a fairly high BTO output. My lod textures are half and half 512 or 256. Vanilla 256 lods for the buildings, all of what is provided in the Dyndolod and some 512 customs on a few wall textures and foliage etc. They all fill a single 4k atlas for Tamriel perfectly and that is a 10.6Mb file.

Edited March 28, 2019 by MKIIV

[sheson]

As I mentioned already, you probably ran one of the *.pas scripts from DynDOLOD\Docs\trees.ultra\tools\*.pas in xEdit.

 

In that case it is possible one of those scripts simply copied full models to passthru_lod.nifs.

 

The output size of object LOD implies the used NIFs for 3D tree LOD are not optimized/hybrids. It is also possible 3D tree models were assigned to all LOD levels, instead of using billboards for the higher levels.

 

In my tests Skyrim Special Edition, USSEP, EVT Skyrim version (plugin converted, with large, whatever else install options) the size of all BTOs for Tamriel generated with DynDOLOD High preset is about 1.36GB.

Edited March 28, 2019 by sheson

[MKIIV]

As I mentioned already, you probably ran one of the *.pas scripts from DynDOLOD\Docs\trees.ultra\tools\*.pas in xEdit.

 

In that case it is possible one of those scripts simply copied full models to passthru_lod.nifs.

 

The output size of object LOD implies the used NIFs for 3D tree LOD are not optimized/hybrids. It is also possible 3D tree models were assigned to all LOD levels, instead of using billboards for the higher levels.

 

In my tests Skyrim Special Edition, USSEP, EVT Skyrim version (plugin converted, with large, whatever else install options) the size of all BTOs for Tamriel generated with DynDOLOD High preset is about 1.36GB.

Yeah i'm sure it's something you are saying that happened. I wasn't trying anything to advanced at that stage, I just ran Xlodgen a few times for tree billboards stand alone,  but i checked the "objects' thing once maybe twice to see what it did. All the output seemed to run fine.

 

With Dyndolod and 3d trees the output is huge and it memory crashes. Weird this is memory blocks log is running but it stops logging apparently, with or without dyndolod. It looks normal in the console, but it never shows above about 56% and at about line 36 is never prints anything into the console anymore even if i coc to another location. In the log.txt it only ever shows two lines 85 and 8. Settings are 512 /256 all default normal suggested. Enb memory allocation and settings are normal Step settings. 

 

I just took all the inins and rules settings from the fresh Dyndolod archive and installed them again, deleted all cache and ran Dyndolod straight from the wizard at medium settings no 3d trees with my normal load order. The Tamriel BTO output folder is 2.62Gb, so that's a pretty massive reduction. Still large apparently, but significantly smaller.

 

I just noticed though that my Tree atlas now only contains 21 trees, so no idea there. Have to look at the log now.

 

As far as memory, probably that my total custom textures accumulation, even though i tried to keep them at 1k or 2k max is just too much. Plus, LOD terrain and it's meshes that i ran in Xlodgen are just too large, terrain is all 512 with 256 normals. Compounded by all my custom textures plus the LOD textures i made and placed into the Dyndolod LOD folder and the large cards for tree billboard creation at 1024.

 

My atlas looks beautiful, but I did a bunch of them in photoshop so they match with the textures i have in game for some objects like imperial towers etc,  so they blend when they fade in, it looks awesome in that aspect. It's hard to tell what is lod any more. They are all mostly Dxt1 1 bit alpha since that's what the base files were already, and the few that are terrain type textures just Dxt1 no alpha. The rest that came with Dyndolod like the main buildings and such are the defaults or color corrected in photoshop 256x256 and compressed in the same formats.

 

Any idea why Memory Blocks Log would be stalling like that? I checked the memory blocks log.txt file modification date and time and it's being updated is to the minute, but just only prints two lines and stops at 58 8. Certainly coc to a new location should be loading into memory and printing to the log?

Edited March 29, 2019 by MKIIV

[Greg]

By default, Memory Blocks Log writes an entry to the log each time the size of the block increases so what you're seeing in the log is expected behavior. I think it's done this way so the contains only relevant information and to keep the log small. You can force it log constantly, but the log file will quickly become very large and you'll see the block size eventually reaches a peak and stays there for the remainder of the game.

[MKIIV]

Bah. I did the thing with the most basic settings, 2d trees and 256 max atlas it's just being finicky. Got the 2d billboards sticking in the loaded cell thing happening for the first time, everything looked amazing otherwise. 3d trees no go on my setup. Out of memory crash and Memory Blocks Log highest recorded is 85 8 still. I do have it set to log only max usage, but even when i coc to whiterun with a forest of trees it never goes or logs higher than that.

 

Weird thing is when i ran it early on trying to do 3d trees and came with all those missing nifs, but found 1 and only it made 1 3d tree on high settings. In the forest mod in Tundra i flew all around the thing and it never ctd.

The only thing i added was the SFO lod files for ferns and whatnot that is different that the one time it seemed to work and run. Could be that.

 

But it looks like i would probably end up with problems with memory over time. Likely just need to move to SE to run this. Something for another day and another million hours. I'll just go with Xlodgen output for now.

 

It looks freaking awesome though with the 3d trees or even without them for the few minutes i am in game before it crashes. Amazing work what you did. Thanks for everything.

Edited March 29, 2019 by MKIIV

[sheson]

You are using Crash Fixed UseOSAllocators=1 with the Preloader. There is nothing to log for Memory Blocks Log.

 

Use xLODGen for terrain LOD. Use DynDOLOD for improved object LOD and then either 2D or 3D tree LOD. If modding is done correctly, either options works in Skyrim.

 

 

FAQ: Game: Tree LOD: LOD trees show in loaded cells

 

A: Make sure all plugins with ITM or deleted references are cleaned. See https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit

 

A: If the load order / priority of plugins adding or changing tree references was changed, generate tree LOD again so it matches the new load order.

 

If there is stuck tree LOD, then the load order changed after tree LOD generation or the generated tree LOD is being overwritten.

 

 

I suggest to learn how to mod properly with a mod manager and following a guide.

[MKIIV]

I did all that. My mods are clean, I use NMM, think i said that. Well in my late night loopy long ass posts sorry. I'm off work on a hurt shoulder and on meds and can't sleep, which is why i'm awake all night and loopy. I was up 24 hours eh, 25 hours yesterday :|

 

I did watched GP video a few times actually, and others, read and read, but honestly the way everything is named, i'm dyslexic and Dyndolod to me looks like Dogonalog. So imagine xlodgen tes5edit xedit 0908833241 is just not easy to digest.  So i just go at it. hands on. I successfully generated a full lod the first time i tried it, just the 3d trees started to mess me up.

 

I didn't think disabling non graphical related mods during generation and then enabling them after would be a problem. I've seen people ask if they can install mods after dyndolod is ran without any problems and the answer was always yes, downside would be only lod for it might be missing if it has any lod in it so i was disabling Sky UI and Status and things that have nothing do with graphics or lod and then enabling them after. I see if Dyndolod is looking for explicit load order Id's.

 

Anyway, i'm not doubting the program. It has worked th efirst try and a bunch of times. Until 3d trees, and once i got that nif thing figured out I have built 3d trees and successfully half a dozen times, but with huge objects output and it is choppy just crashes out of memory. I got sloppy and annoyed and just had to go to bed, lol.

 

I'll try dropping to 512k tree billboards, no 3d trees at first and 256 atlas lods but with full load order during generation and see how it goes, then go on and try maybe just a few 3d trees and lower tree texture resolution see where the limit is.

Thanks again for the replies. 

[sheson]

I did all that. My mods are clean, I use NMM, think i said that. Well in my late night loopy long ass posts sorry. I'm off work on a hurt shoulder and on meds and can't sleep, which is why i'm awake all night and loopy. I was up 24 hours eh, 25 hours yesterday :|

 

I did watched GP video a few times actually, and others, read and read, but honestly the way everything is named, i'm dyslexic and Dyndolod to me looks like Dogonalog. So imagine xlodgen tes5edit xedit 0908833241 is just not easy to digest.  So i just go at it. hands on. I successfully generated a full lod the first time i tried it, just the 3d trees started to mess me up.

 

I didn't think disabling non graphical related mods during generation and then enabling them after would be a problem. I've seen people ask if they can install mods after dyndolod is ran without any problems and the answer was always yes, downside would be only lod for it might be missing if it has any lod in it so i was disabling Sky UI and Status and things that have nothing do with graphics or lod and then enabling them after. I see if Dyndolod is looking for explicit load order Id's.

 

Anyway, i'm not doubting the program. It has worked th efirst try and a bunch of times. Until 3d trees, and once i got that nif thing figured out I have built 3d trees and successfully half a dozen times, but with huge objects output and it is choppy just crashes out of memory. I got sloppy and annoyed and just had to go to bed, lol.

 

I'll try dropping to 512k tree billboards, no 3d trees at first and 256 atlas lods but with full load order during generation and see how it goes, then go on and try maybe just a few 3d trees and lower tree texture resolution see where the limit is.

Thanks again for the replies. 

Typically disabling plugins is a troubleshooting step. 

 

If a plugin does not contain anything that is related to what DynDOLOD does, then there is no point in disabling them. There is no need to waste extra time to confirm that they can be disabled.

 

A valid approach is to create a LOD mod for the base install and to not include plugins test are being tested or might be just there temporary. Such plugins should load after the DynDOLOD plugins.

 

Be wary about statements you read somewhere else, unfortunately they are often wrong.